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General Chat Thread, It couldn't happen in the USA in General; Originally Posted by edutech4schools Simulated theory is testable, this is one way Do we live in the Matrix? Scientists believe ...
  1. #31

    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edutech4schools View Post
    Simulated theory is testable, this is one way Do we live in the Matrix? Scientists believe they may have answered the question - Telegraph

    but I have seen other ways in New Scientist about how it could be tested.
    Still not sure where you get "statistically more likely" from though.

    As that article says, all that the test in question would demonstrate is that we could be a simulation run by superior external beings, assuming those superior external beings ran the simulation in the same way that we would - which is a pretty massive assumption.

    Personally, the thought that keeps me awake is "what is now?" Do we actually progress through time in a linear fashion, or are we destroyed and recreated from moment to moment, with all our prior thoughts and memories extant as if we have experienced time? Do we, infact, cycle through an unimaginable infinity of realities from one moment to the next, unaware of anything but what we experience in the "now" and what we were created thinking is true? Is there an indivisible unit of "now" for us to exist in? Is there even a meaningful interpretation of the concept of "now" in a relativistic universe? Is there enough money in my wallet to stop off at McDonalds later for a quick cheeseburger?

    (I'll grant that the last one is less profound, but it's a fairly accurate representation of my moment-to-moment thoughts. If those thoughts have a moment to occur in, of course.)

  2. #32

    jinnantonnixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post

    Personally, the thought that keeps me awake is "what is now?" Do we actually progress through time in a linear fashion, or are we destroyed and recreated from moment to moment, with all our prior thoughts and memories extant as if we have experienced time? Do we, infact, cycle through an unimaginable infinity of realities from one moment to the next, unaware of anything but what we experience in the "now" and what we were created thinking is true? Is there an indivisible unit of "now" for us to exist in? Is there even a meaningful interpretation of the concept of "now" in a relativistic universe? Is there enough money in my wallet to stop off at McDonalds later for a quick cheeseburger?

    (I'll grant that the last one is less profound, but it's a fairly accurate representation of my moment-to-moment thoughts. If those thoughts have a moment to occur in, of course.)
    I hear you bro. This is one of my favourite articles, I've posted it before so apologies if you find my fantastic links irritating.
    http://www.nikhef.nl/pub/services/bi...am14327034.pdf


    P.S. I've got spare tickets for this place - anyone fancy coming along?
    Genesis Expo - Creation Museum in Portsmouth
    Last edited by jinnantonnixx; 19th June 2014 at 01:26 PM.

  3. #33
    Galway's Avatar
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    Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But be sure you will be judged on it.

    I personally am not a religious person in any way shape or form. I can understand why people do, and I can see how this belief helps them live their lives, but that does not mean their belief is the truth.

    If im brutally honest, I cant understand why in this modern age religion plays such a part in life. Its the biggest lie ever told.

  4. #34

    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jinnantonnixx View Post
    I hear you bro. This is one of my favourite articles, I've posted it before so apologies if you find my fantastic links irritating.
    http://www.nikhef.nl/pub/services/bi...am14327034.pdf
    Read through it at least a couple of times from previous linkage block time is mind-blowing and given how little of that article I can comprehend in any one reading, multiple viewings don't hurt.

  5. #35

    jinnantonnixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post
    Read through it at least a couple of times from previous linkage block time is mind-blowing and given how little of that article I can comprehend in any one reading, multiple viewings don't hurt.
    I also liked this paper. It contains quite a bit of speculation, but it's interesting even if it's wrong.
    http://fqxi.org/data/essay-contest-f..._FQXi_time.pdf
    Last edited by jinnantonnixx; 19th June 2014 at 02:00 PM.

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  7. #36

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    I'm sure I used this quote last time @jinnantonnixx blew my mind with the block universe:

    Time! Don't talk to me about time! We don't have the time!

  8. #37


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    Quote Originally Posted by Galway View Post
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
    No, they are not (or if they are, it is meaningless since they are not necessarily entitled to express it). In Austria for instance, simply expressing an opinion that the holocaust didn't happen can land you in jail. In a court of law, replacing facts as you observed them with your opinion of how the world should be, could result in a charge of contempt. At best, "you are entitled to your opinion" is a facile statement equivalent to "you are entitled to spout utter nonsense". It is pretty meaningless to say someone is entitled to their opinion that (say) humans can fly unassisted. Sure, no one can stop them being wrong, but are they 'entitled' (have some legal right) to be wrong? If they start persuading impressionable children or people with learning difficulties to jump off tall buildings, are you going to say that's OK, it's just an opinion?

  9. #38

    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jinnantonnixx View Post
    I also liked this paper. It contains quite a bit of speculation, but it's interesting even if it's wrong.
    http://fqxi.org/data/essay-contest-f..._FQXi_time.pdf
    Head. Destroyed.

    I'm off to read some webcomics or something to calm my brain down.

    (Like the paper, however, I don't believe in free will, only the illusion of it.)

    EDIT: @pcstru made me think of this image, relevant to the thread at large.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails It couldn't happen in the USA-asimov.jpg  
    Last edited by sonofsanta; 19th June 2014 at 02:13 PM.

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  11. #39

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    Still not sure where you get "statistically more likely" from though


    Admittedly the following is a bit of a stretch but,

    Oxford philosopher Nick Bostrom has argued that we are more likely to be in such a simulation than not. If such simulations are possible in theory, he reasons, then eventually humans will create them — presumably many of them. If this is so, in time there will be many more simulated worlds than non simulated ones. Statistically speaking, therefore, we are more likely to be living in a simulated world than the real one.


  12. #40

    Garacesh's Avatar
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    Oxford philosopher Nick Bostrom has argued that we are more likely to be in such a simulation than not. If such simulations are possible in theory, he reasons, then eventually humans will create them — presumably many of them. If this is so, in time there will be many more simulated worlds than non simulated ones. Statistically speaking, therefore, we are more likely to be living in a simulated world than the real one.
    That's assuming there's only one 'reality' but multiple 'simulations'. Whilst multiple simulations would be possible (If we can make one, we can make two. Or three. etc) but what about the multiverse theory? There will be an infinite number of universes where nobody has invented these simulations (and infinite universes where they have).. but infinite can't be bigger or smaller than infinite :P

  13. #41


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    Quote Originally Posted by Garacesh View Post
    infinite can't be bigger or smaller than infinite :P
    They can, sort of. Georg Cantor gave us orders of infinity. So for instance you can have numbers from 0 .. ∞, which is an infinite set. But you can have just the even numbers from 0 .. ∞, which is obviously only half of what the first set contains, but is still infinite.

  14. #42

    jinnantonnixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post
    Head. Destroyed.

    I'm off to read some webcomics or something to calm my brain down.

    (Like the paper, however, I don't believe in free will, only the illusion of it.)

    Then you'll love this. This is a summary of Roger Penrose's adaptation of the Rietdijk–Putnam argument - 'The Andromeda Paradox'

    In a nutshell, my 'now' can include things that have yet to happen in your 'now'.
    Enjoy.

    Special Relativity/Simultaneity, time dilation and length contraction - Wikibooks, open books for an open world
    Last edited by jinnantonnixx; 20th June 2014 at 01:13 PM.

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  16. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    No, they are not (or if they are, it is meaningless since they are not necessarily entitled to express it). In Austria for instance, simply expressing an opinion that the holocaust didn't happen can land you in jail. In a court of law, replacing facts as you observed them with your opinion of how the world should be, could result in a charge of contempt. At best, "you are entitled to your opinion" is a facile statement equivalent to "you are entitled to spout utter nonsense". It is pretty meaningless to say someone is entitled to their opinion that (say) humans can fly unassisted. Sure, no one can stop them being wrong, but are they 'entitled' (have some legal right) to be wrong? If they start persuading impressionable children or people with learning difficulties to jump off tall buildings, are you going to say that's OK, it's just an opinion?
    I want those precious minutes of my lunch break back!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galway View Post
    I want those precious minutes of my lunch break back!
    I'm afraid I find the "I have a right to my opinion" fallacy ... interesting. It is so widespread and oft repeated yet it is only true at trivial (what I like to call the "I like cheese") level.

    There is a nice little site whatstheharm.net which documents examples of the harm caused to people who believed 'silly' things. The really sad ones are the children who died because their parents were committed to particular religious memes.

  18. #45

    Garacesh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    There is a nice little site whatstheharm.net which documents examples of the harm caused to people who believed 'silly' things.
    The site you have chosen has been categorized as: Occult
    http://whatstheharm.net/index.ht...
    Uh. What? O.o



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