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General Chat Thread, Seriously Apple! Enough! in General; Here's an example of why I find iPads trying Year 7s needed an app for a lesson, okay it should've ...
  1. #76

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    Here's an example of why I find iPads trying
    Year 7s needed an app for a lesson, okay it should've been requested earlier to give us more time - but you would think it would be as simple as downloading the (free) app and pushing it out to those devices *except* they are under 13 and don't have itunes accounts, so they have to bring them individually to us for apps to be installed - this caused disruption to the lesson. Okay with better planning this could've been avoided but it's so frustrating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by caffrey View Post
    Here's an example of why I find iPads trying
    Year 7s needed an app for a lesson, okay it should've been requested earlier to give us more time - but you would think it would be as simple as downloading the (free) app and pushing it out to those devices *except* they are under 13 and don't have itunes accounts, so they have to bring them individually to us for apps to be installed - this caused disruption to the lesson. Okay with better planning this could've been avoided but it's so frustrating.
    A lot of my frustration with iPads comes from the fact that most of this hassle exists purely to retain Apple's control over the eco-system. There's no reason I shouldn't be able to pull down a packaged app and distribute it in any way I see fit. All of the Apple Configurator management is bolted on, and was clearly not built into the OS from the ground up, and MDM is so restrictive to the MDM provider as to be barely usable by the admin.

  3. #78
    rad
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    I have a bank of 16 iPads the RE teacher managed for a year os so then left in July last year. It took 7 months before they asked for help, to which I reset them all back to factory settings and updated them. Students had been foolish with them, using the camera and changing the backgrounds etc. Once even accessed websites it shouldnt.... which led me on to how they did it.

    They then decided to buy 35 using another budget, mainly for English for them to do their reading test on. I got this set up using the Apple configurator and have locked them down to Safari only. Why you say, because there is no MDM solution that allows you to configure an iPad how you want. You cant stop them "hot Spotting" to their own phones, you cant lock down everything how you can in a windows environment.

    The 35 iPads have been ready since the Easter Holidays.... still not handed over cos they have possibly forgotten about them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rad View Post
    They then decided to buy 35 using another budget, mainly for English for them to do their reading test on. I got this set up using the Apple configurator and have locked them down to Safari only.
    I'm getting requests like this more often, staff want them for quick on-line research during lessons. First question I ask "why does it have to be an iPad?" not yet heard an answer that justifies the price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rad View Post
    I have a bank of 16 iPads the RE teacher managed for a year os so then left in July last year. It took 7 months before they asked for help, to which I reset them all back to factory settings and updated them. Students had been foolish with them, using the camera and changing the backgrounds etc. Once even accessed websites it shouldnt.... which led me on to how they did it.

    They then decided to buy 35 using another budget, mainly for English for them to do their reading test on. I got this set up using the Apple configurator and have locked them down to Safari only. Why you say, because there is no MDM solution that allows you to configure an iPad how you want. You cant stop them "hot Spotting" to their own phones, you cant lock down everything how you can in a windows environment.

    The 35 iPads have been ready since the Easter Holidays.... still not handed over cos they have possibly forgotten about them!
    I am sure something here will be your fault or what you want from them. A few people here nailed it on hard that it's down to us to say how we want to control them. Apple can't argue the case that they are for home users because they have been pushing to get in to Schools and are quick to say "We will help Education any way we can".

    It's a lot of money though just to perform an English test, I noticed here there are a lot of Netbooks scattered around the School and now they are sitting in classrooms, cupboards, cabinets and barely being touched. It's a lot of money for devices just to sit there and not after 5 years but after 2. I am in the process of working out exactly how much money this School has spent in regards to mobile devices and I'm not including our man hours.

    The costs involved are staggering considering the main reason they walked away from PCs is cost and space. We all know that PCs can be done tidy, cost effective and don't require a ton of space. When I have finished my video editing suite Staff and especially those pro mobile devices Staff are going to be shocked at how much I spent to get a classroom setup. Not only setup but looking impressive with very limited space. My aim is to make this look like a Mac Suite as well.

    Don't get me wrong I can see the benefit of Mobile devices, we are going tablets after all but if it doesn't work out well enough I won't be afraid to say it to SLT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by APMerry View Post
    I'm getting requests like this more often, staff want them for quick on-line research during lessons. First question I ask "why does it have to be an iPad?" not yet heard an answer that justifies the price.
    coz its shiny and has tv adverts [/sarcasm]

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    Quote Originally Posted by APMerry View Post
    First question I ask "why does it have to be an iPad?" not yet heard an answer that justifies the price.
    "...because we want to use [iOS specific app]"

    Why does it have to be [iOS specific app], you ask.

    "...because that's what we're using."

    Degree educated and can't do better than "we're using X, because we're using X".



    And yes, I've literally had people say things like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edublogger View Post
    A lot of my frustration with iPads comes from the fact that most of this hassle exists purely to retain Apple's control over the eco-system.
    What annoys me is that they've done so well with convincing the general public that their way is best (I can remember seeing a poor review of an old WinMo phone on Amazon that complained there wasn't an App Store) and that handing near-complete control of your device to the OS Manufacturer is for your own good, that everyone is rushing to follow the same business model.

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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    "...because we want to use [iOS specific app]"

    Why does it have to be [iOS specific app], you ask.

    "...because that's what we're using."

    Degree educated and can't do better than "we're using X, because we're using X".



    And yes, I've literally had people say things like that.
    That's pretty much how my conversations have gone too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    "...because we want to use [iOS specific app]"

    Why does it have to be [iOS specific app], you ask.

    "...because that's what we're using."

    Degree educated and can't do better than "we're using X, because we're using X".



    And yes, I've literally had people say things like that.
    I have had the exact same conversation, and this one...

    Them: We need to have App X and iPads

    Me: Why?

    Them: Because school Y uses App X

    Me: If school Y paid $500 per pupil to jump off a bridge...

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    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    You might want to look at the MobilEther MDM solution by iBoss. With the iBoss MDM/ Web Filter solution, you can remove the default App Store from the iPad replacing it with a filtered version, and also blacklist certain apps so that they either cannot be installed or removing network access until the app is removed (user is informed and is effective no matter what network the user tries to take the iPad onto). MobilEther also provides the capability to tie devices to web filtering that goes wherever the device goes on any network, including 3G/4G.
    Or if you want a solution to do this, buy an enterprise MDM solution and not something free or profile manager

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    Quote Originally Posted by caffrey View Post
    That looks good, but again relying on third party for something that should be in apples MDM , it's yet another hidden cost on iPad rollout
    Hidden costs, what rubbish

    I suppose you buy Windows computers then moan about the "hidden cost" of software applications to run on them do you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brimstone View Post
    Or if you want a solution to do this, buy an enterprise MDM solution and not something free or profile manager

    whilst i do agree with this, Meraki MDM is pretty decent and i have few issues with it - however i have light speed coming in this afternoon to have a chat about their offering as it looks a lot better and suited to education environments.

    oh, i also wish apple would move away from apple accounts as the authentication for these devices i know this works well for teachers/adults but i am not creating 300 email accounts for children(primary) just to please you!
    Last edited by DGardiner; 5th June 2014 at 01:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brimstone View Post
    Hidden costs, what rubbish

    I suppose you buy Windows computers then moan about the "hidden cost" of software applications to run on them do you?
    False equivalence.

    You buy a new windows computer and you can just whack it on the network. Network drives, remote management of software/users. No fuss.

    You buy an iPad and you can't. Not without paying for a MDM solution.


    Both iPads and Windows computers have paid and free software.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brimstone View Post
    Hidden costs, what rubbish

    I suppose you buy Windows computers then moan about the "hidden cost" of software applications to run on them do you?
    Hmm, but you don't need to buy SCCM to install an application on a couple of computers without touching them and computers at least have the assumption that some infrastructure may be required.

    iPads 'just work' which is complete rubbish and because of that all these costs are not put forward at all to begin with. Also you expect a tool to be able to do its job at least a little, Apples MDM is junk and can barely make a dent in the configurability anyway even if it does work that one day or so.

    You also don't need to go and buy a bunch of very specific hardware then layer on more and more management just to get the basics. You get Windows Server and with AD it manages Windows clients, if it does not do something you want it to you can script it. Apple is different, like a Porche dealer, every little thing is extra and if your really lucky they will charge you double for a version with all the features stripped out that's 'cooler'.

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