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General Chat Thread, Seriously Apple! Enough! in General; Originally Posted by DGardiner This, since the VPP came to the UK and IOS7 turned up it has been easy ...
  1. #16

    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGardiner View Post
    This, since the VPP came to the UK and IOS7 turned up it has been easy to get them going, i use configurator to give them a base profile of wifi settings and little else, then enrol them onto meraki system centre and leave them to it, you assign apps via VPP and never touch them again... the users don't need accounts with credit cards to rack up bills...

    they can still however install crap using their own accounts as i don't think you can disable app install/removal and still be able to deploy/install via mdm
    Good to hear it works for someone, Configurator can't even manage to enter our WiFi properly, have to add that manually after supervision, have checked everything even in the actual XML of the profile that gets pushed, the key is right it just refuses to use it. Utter junk - apples config tools - the whole way through. It makes me yearn for Windows NT4 which at least made a passable attempt at being manageable.

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    rich_tech's Avatar
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    Thats a bug bear of mine, we only have a small amount on our site and I have been using apple configurator lately getting to grips with it all(waiting to have LEA finish off our wireless installation), their not massively hard to configure from what I have seen, though can be very fiddly, I dislike the fact that you cannot get them "completely" finished using it and it requires 5 minutes of setting a passcode and other tweaks to finish them off after the apps, (unless anyone knows how to completely do that process, we have an imac for their configuration here, not a server)

    I have only used free apps here so far, VPP was a bit of a nightmare when I was looking at setting it up, but I will probably revisit that shortly when I get a bit of R+D time towards the summer.

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    Shadow_Walker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brimstone View Post
    Standing up as well here...

    Just completed 1500 iPads, enrolled and deployed using Lightspeed. It took 3 days with lots of planning.....works like a dream
    WOW did you have to make 1500 apple ID's for each one?

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    Wonder if they will start doing a GCSE in ipads for all these schools not afraid of embracing the dark side

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    mac_shinobi's Avatar
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    Seriously Apple! Enough!

    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    I'd prefer to feed them through this at this stage Attachment 24865


    Before anyone asks this is not behind the red door because Apple and their followers need to see it, it needs to be indexed.
    Lol you could make your own silicon valley from the shredded apple kit !!

    On a more serious note they need to work on getting it to work correctly or failing that have a simple how to manage ipads , installing apps on mass etc
    Last edited by mac_shinobi; 3rd June 2014 at 10:26 PM.

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    free780's Avatar
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    I take it people are not using a proxy server with the ipads. Now that is fun.

  7. #22

    seawolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    They now have a nice little game where you can no longer create an iTunes id without adding money of some sort, not even with the hack. So to use it you have to waste half your budget on iTunes cards that ideally will never be used as it should all go through their barely working VPP.
    Is this something that changed in the last week, because last time I checked you can create an Apple ID without a credit card or gift card by trying to purchase a free app when not logged in with an Apple ID and then choosing the option to create an Apple ID when prompted. Works on both iTunes and on an iPad from the App Store.

    If I ever get handed another stack of iPads I will straight up walk out rather than deal with them. Working with them is literally not worth employment.
    Some of you boys on here have 100x more problems than I've ever seen with iPads. I don't know if it has something to do with the proxies and shared internet connections/filtering UK schools have or what - but the UK seems to have the biggest brunt of management issues with them. Correlation does not necessarily imply causation, but I have to wonder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    Yes but try conveying that to the thick headed bags of human garbage who pedal this rubbish to schools promising the world then disappearing. Apple's sales team to education needs to be put to death.
    I don't know what the sales team are actually saying in the UK, but in Australia, Apple employees (not resellers) were stating from day one pretty loud and clear that the iPad was a 1:1 device and that using them as "shared" devices was not what they were designed to do, and that forcing them into that square hole would be difficult. This was stated at two different Q&A sessions where Apple employees were in attendance to answer questions from the IT Managers and Principals at schools in Victoria, Australia. So, was this actual Apple employees singing their praises for "shared" use, or resellers?

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    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    Is this something that changed in the last week, because last time I checked you can create an Apple ID without a credit card or gift card by trying to purchase a free app when not logged in with an Apple ID and then choosing the option to create an Apple ID when prompted. Works on both iTunes and on an iPad from the App Store.
    Tried that multiple times and could not get past it in the NZ or US region. Someone else said that if you add the step of setting up iCloud first it may then allow that hack but that is getting up into the half hour or more per account. A huge time sink.

    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    Some of you boys on here have 100x more problems than I've ever seen with iPads. I don't know if it has something to do with the proxies and shared internet connections/filtering UK schools have or what - but the UK seems to have the biggest brunt of management issues with them. Correlation does not necessarily imply causation, but I have to wonder.
    No proxy, but their is some weird filtering in play, this is New Zealand so the junk that flies here would not be tolerated in many countries. Still, nothing else has a problem and iPad apps still take hours to install on our 100Mbit fibre.

    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    I don't know what the sales team are actually saying in the UK, but in Australia, Apple employees (not resellers) were stating from day one pretty loud and clear that the iPad was a 1:1 device and that using them as "shared" devices was not what they were designed to do, and that forcing them into that square hole would be difficult. This was stated at two different Q&A sessions where Apple employees were in attendance to answer questions from the IT Managers and Principals at schools in Victoria, Australia. So, was this actual Apple employees singing their praises for "shared" use, or resellers?
    Perhaps not the apple team themselves but rather the team of technology illiterate ex teachers who make their living showing off the 'revolution' of apps instead of teaching. These are probably the same people who let TV raise their children as it is the same kind of mentality. These people will lobby and convince with no regard for setup, possibility or legality and should be made to pay greatly.


    As to the amount of problems, you are right, there seem to be hundreds and half of them are to do with Apples greedy politics, the other half are technical as their aversion to the error message that makes problems solvable and their shoddy work on OSX Server just make it hell. The little brand new top spec mac mini is crawling and takes a couple of seconds to open a new tab on safari, it has just run its required upgrades and had configurator and Server installed on it. Its like a Windows 98 box that has been running for seven years and it has only been, at best 7 months. Shockingly bad, I don't know how people find Apple products even tolerable if this is even remotely usual. I should not have to do a full reinstall for an Os hotfix or even a point revision. Windows 8 - 8.1 went fine and that is a stack more complex driver wise.
    Last edited by SYNACK; 4th June 2014 at 06:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    They now have a nice little game where you can no longer create an iTunes id without adding money of some sort, not even with the hack.
    The "free app" method of creating an account should still work?

    Creating an iTunes Store, App Store, iBooks Store, and Mac App Store account without a credit card

    Have you tried the Apple ID Automation Builder to create accounts in bulk?

    There's also the Apple ID for Students program, but I imagine it's only available in the US at the moment?
    Last edited by Arthur; 4th June 2014 at 06:55 AM.

  12. #26

    seawolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    Tried that multiple times and could not get past it in the NZ or US region. Someone else said that if you add the step of setting up iCloud first it may then allow that hack but that is getting up into the half hour or more per account. A huge time sink.
    Nope, still works here. I don't know what you have going on there, but using the method I've always used still works just fine as I just tested it.


    No proxy, but their is some weird filtering in play, this is New Zealand so the junk that flies here would not be tolerated in many countries. Still, nothing else has a problem and iPad apps still take hours to install on our 100Mbit fibre.
    Also, don't know what you've got going on here unless you are trying to update an app on hundreds of iPads at once. We only have 30Mbit fibre and it only takes minutes to update most apps. Of course, if I pushed an update to 300 iPads at once it could take a while, but not two hours.

    As to the amount of problems, you are right, there seem to be hundreds and half of them are to do with Apples greedy politics, the other half are technical as their aversion to the error message that makes problems solvable and their shoddy work on OSX Server just make it hell.
    Don't know what Apple's "greedy politics" you are referring to, but most of the majors seem to be about as bad as one another. Microsoft certainly doesn't give anything to anyone for free, and Google only appears to give things away for free while rummaging through your data in ways the NSA wouldn't have the balls to even think about doing, and using that information to make metric butt tons of money.

    he little brand new top spec mac mini is crawling and takes a couple of seconds to open a new tab on safari, it has just run its required upgrades and had configurator and Server installed on it. Its like a Windows 98 box that has been running for seven years and it has only been, at best 7 months. Shockingly bad, I don't know how people find Apple products even tolerable if this is even remotely usual. I should not have to do a full reinstall for an Os hotfix or even a point revision. Windows 8 - 8.1 went fine and that is a stack more complex driver wise.
    Do you generate a powerful EMI field that only affects gear made by Apple. Perhaps operating on a particular frequency? A top spec Mac Mini that you are only using for the Server app running that slow is very, very out of the ordinary (and not even remotely usual). Unless perhaps you are trying to manage hundreds or thousand of iPads using Profile Manager there is no reason for it to be going that slow. I repeat - it is not normal. Perhaps a hardware scan is called for here.
    Last edited by seawolf; 4th June 2014 at 07:14 AM.

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    Does anyone have any clear tangible evidence that they actually provide a benefit to education ? Apple never make a big deal of it and rarely mention education at all - nothing on the keynote the other night either. Ours usually get used for "research" which is basically browsing the internet - something that could've been done on a chromebook...

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    Quote Originally Posted by caffrey View Post
    Does anyone have any clear tangible evidence that they actually provide a benefit to education ? Apple never make a big deal of it and rarely mention education at all - nothing on the keynote the other night either. Ours usually get used for "research" which is basically browsing the internet - something that could've been done on a chromebook...
    Yes, there have been several studies already about the use of iPads in the classroom. However, you'll notice that several of these studies were not looking at the actual evidence of whether the iPad improved results, but whether students or educators "thought" they did. Those, we should completely dismiss as not being evidence-based. Some of the studies did use empirical evidence rather than opinion to make their conclusions, and there were a few with positive results:

    iPads improve special education at Coon Rapids school | Star Tribune
    Motion Math In-class | GameDesk
    Study: iPads improve Kindergarten literacy scores | Apple news, reviews and how-tos since 2004
    iPad-equipped medical school class scores 23 percent higher on exams | mobihealthnews

    However, it should be noted that the studies that showed positive results were in very specific areas and circumstances that very likely affected the outcomes. My read on these is that iPads are very effective with Special Needs students, for assisting in learning fundamental maths at the Primary level (making dry subjects more game like usually helps!), possibly assisting younger kids with literacy, and it appears that they also are effective at helping already highly driven and goal-oriented Medical students.

    On the other hand, I've seen iPads cause lots of problems in classrooms particularly for teachers who don't know how to manage a classroom effectively and there are many studies that show many detriments to using laptops in the classroom, which would probably carry over even more strongly to iPads as they are even more distraction causing.

    http://www.mcla.edu/Academics/upload..._classroom.pdf
    http://www.stanford.edu/class/linguist156/laptops.pdf
    UNL study shows college students are digitally distracted in class | News Releases | University of Nebraska-Lincoln

    But...shhhh....don't tell anyone or there would be half the tech in schools and there would be half as many jobs for us all. But, seriously I'm highly skeptical of the amount of technology being pushed into the classroom when there are so many teachers who cannot manage a classroom effectively already and don't really know what they are going to do with the technology (or how to do it). Technology has been pushed as the solution to improving student outcomes and grades. Sorry to break the news, but they don't.

    To add a bit of irony to it all, the one area where technology can be used REALLY effectively - in teaching computer programming and other tech-centric skills - is the one area where schools are falling down the most technology-wise. That's why things like code.org even exists. All of this technology in the classroom and it isn't even being used effectively for the one area where it is absolutely necessary.
    Last edited by seawolf; 4th June 2014 at 08:21 AM.

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    I agree, I get feedback from teachers that complain that devices cause disruption, particularly students at the back of the class doing anything other than what they are supposed to be doing but I would assume this is down to the teacher to enforce discipline ? I get reports that they are using apps to bypass filtering and they are using snapchat etc. in clear violation of the AUP yet the teaching staff expect IT to be able to control it...

    On the other side, Apple could really help here with better app management - blacklist apps etc. as it goes we can see what apps have been installed but if they haven't been installed by VPP or MDM you can only just stare at it and report it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    Do you generate a powerful EMI field that only affects gear made by Apple. Perhaps operating on a particular frequency? A top spec Mac Mini that you are only using for the Server app running that slow is very, very out of the ordinary (and not even remotely usual). Unless perhaps you are trying to manage hundreds or thousand of iPads using Profile Manager there is no reason for it to be going that slow. I repeat - it is not normal. Perhaps a hardware scan is called for here.
    On this point, my experience is that it is normal. I bought an i7 Mac Mini "Server" in 2012 and it absolutely crawled! Not to mention the fact they call it a server...



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