General Chat Thread, Stop Calling Teachers 'Miss' Or 'Sir', Pupils Are Told - Telegraph in General; a'hem... so should the replicated throughout the UK for equality?
Therefore the Armed Forces are in for a shock.
14th May 2014, 09:13 AM #16
a'hem... so should the replicated throughout the UK for equality?
Therefore the Armed Forces are in for a shock.
Knighthoods are buggered.
This is and always has been a mild discipline keeper, worked well for ever why change it now? Lets not even wander into familiarity between students and staff...
Are we absolutely sure this is the Telegraph... has more of a whiff of Daily Mail to me
14th May 2014, 09:19 AM #17
I use Miss and Mrs interchangeably, usually defaulting to Miss for informal circumstances or Mrs for more formal usage. In some cases I use Dr for a few staff members with that title. There is no political motivation behind any of it, titles are a core part of our language and shouldn't really be messed with.
Plus calling staff by their first names takes away the fun of watching kids try to guess staff forenames with hilarious results.
14th May 2014, 09:21 AM #18
I'm just imagining is now, kids calling out "Dave" in class rather than "Sir", or "Julie" instead of "Miss". If you're called Richard or Fanny, your life in a school will be hell. Then of course there are names they can call out obscenities and claim they said your name, much to the amusement of the rest of the class I'm sure... I just can't see how using first names is going to do anything but break down the respect.
Last edited by LosOjos; 14th May 2014 at 09:22 AM.
14th May 2014, 09:21 AM #19
I think that calling adults by their first name is not right - there needs to be a "barrier" of some sort between those in authority and those being taught. If a student calls you by your first name then they are seeing you as being on their level and are less likely to follow instructions as you are a peer and not "above" them.
I really don't think the Miss/Mrs/Ms debate even exists. Around here, all female teachers in infant/first schools are generally called Mrs and at senior school it is Miss - never worked out why.
It might be nice if they asked each teacher what they prefer, or as you say, called them all Ms to remove any issues. @elsiegee40 It would be nice to have one's own choice respected - I am Ms - I choose to be so but nobody in either school bothers to even try and remember that.
They also have a tendency to call me by my first name in front of the students which I hate.
As for "Ma'am - my father was in the civil service and spent quite a lot of time with the Royal Family - he was taught that in fact you DO pronounce it closer to "mum" and "maaaaam" is completely wrong
@CAM How can "Mrs" be for more formal use? It is for married women whereas Miss is for single ones - how can that change depending on the situation?
Last edited by witch; 14th May 2014 at 09:23 AM.
14th May 2014, 09:30 AM #20
@witch so are you Ms Witch or Ms W. Itch?
Tehehe girly giggle
14th May 2014, 09:32 AM #21
The Miss thing is a lifesaver IMO. Far too often I forget who's married, who's not, and who prefers Ms; and I'm sure the kids aren't particularly worried. It saves embarrassment, saves the reference person from correcting or even being bothered about it and everyone just gets on with their day
14th May 2014, 09:33 AM #22
In all schools I went to and worked in, Miss was what was used regardless, unless they used their surname and then the correct Miss or Mrs was used.
There is a snifter of a point in titles distinguishing women from being married or not (not Ms obviously) so can see why some would not like that. We men after all don't have such a title to tell people we are married or not (prizes for the person to come up with one!)
14th May 2014, 09:34 AM #23
Seems a little cart before the horse to me. The use of Miss, Mrs, Ms etc... still exists and is normal in this country. What does eliminating it in schools do if everyone else is still effectively doing it still everywhere else.
If it is about discrimination, then surely we should be working on eliminating it elsewhere and schools should reflect that move, not trying to lead the issue - schools don't introduce equality policy for a country.
However, I've always been torn by the different ways of referring to staff in schools. I used to think use of first names would be better, as it encourages a more friendly atmosphere. However, I've changed that view as I've seen the way pupils need structure and an authority figure to sort them out. So, I'm more in the "Mr Smith" "Miss Jones" camp now. I dislike Sir specifically, as it indicates an elevated stature that simply isn't there. Mr Smith is polite, Sir is grovelling.
14th May 2014, 09:34 AM #24
Why did I suddenly think of this?
14th May 2014, 09:38 AM #25
Seems very Yes, Minister doesn't it.
Originally Posted by localzuk
14th May 2014, 09:40 AM #26
The thing is that Mrs is no indicator of marriage. Many divorced ladies continue to be Mrs. We have an employee at my school who is called Mrs $husband's_surname and has been for over 20 years, but in fact she and her partner have never married.
Originally Posted by GREED
Going back a few decades Mrs was regularly used a courtesy title for women in positions of authority. Teachers and housekeepers for example would use the title, but they were invariably spinsters.
14th May 2014, 09:42 AM #27
Yes, Sir. I agree, Sir.
Originally Posted by GREED
Wonderful powers of observation, Sir.
The whole Mrs/Miss/Ms thing once caused an argument between me and the mum of a friend...
She thought that "Ms" was for boys. Didn't believe me when I said it wasn't.
14th May 2014, 09:45 AM #28
Absolutely ridiculous, where's the respect on a student calling me Alex, I get it sometimes now and kids walk pas saying "Alright Al" and I give um a quick telling off and tell them to call me Mr $Lastname. I really don't like it and think it always sounds disrespectful when a child uses my first name!
So lets add that to the list, we can't tell them off too much, lay a hand on them, they can call us what they want, get away with all things wrongly doing and then we get stabbed by some little $%!£
It blooming' angers me all that when will all this rubbish stop eventually it'll get to a point where children have such low respect for authoritative figures society will have major issues.
14th May 2014, 09:47 AM #29
Here the teaching staff refer to each other as Sir/Miss or Mr/Miss in front of the pupils interchangeably here. We're in an area where Mrs sounds like Miss anyway and no-one seems to mind.
However, they refer to myself and my Technician by our forenames; consequently, so do the kids. The new Head isn't at all keen on this, but it doesn't look like it's going to stop.
14th May 2014, 09:49 AM #30
Miss rolls off the tongue quickly, Mrs just seems to add an extra bit of stature and authority (and sounds posher!) making it ideal for more formal situation when speaking to students. Either way I never know the marital status of most staff so getting the right one is tricky and tend to default to Miss. It's how I was brought up.
Originally Posted by witch
Example: I was dealing with a group of sixth form and getting them started. One moment "Where does Miss Smith keep the lunch passes guys?" Another moment: "Mrs Smith expects X pieces of work complete by the end of the day or you will be returning afterschool Monday to finish it."
Last edited by CAM; 14th May 2014 at 09:52 AM.
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