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General Chat Thread, Question For Those Who Have Gone Through The Job Evaluation Process in General; Our LA have completed their JE process and as a result I'll be taking a reduction in pay. I have ...
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    SYSMAN_MK's Avatar
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    Question For Those Who Have Gone Through The Job Evaluation Process

    Our LA have completed their JE process and as a result I'll be taking a reduction in pay. I have gone through the appeal process and have been informed that this wont be heard as re required 50%+1 level was not reached.

    I am happy with the Role Profile given, I believe that it has not been scored correctly, therefore not achieving the point score I believe reflects the role. There is also the fact that a Level 2 IT Technician and a Level 3 IT Technician have been scored on the same grade.

    This being the case, in my opinion, the JE process has rendered the career progression of an IT Technician pointless after L2. Why on earth would anyone wont to progress to more responsibility for no reward.

    So has anyone else been in a similar situation after Job Evaluation, and what did you do?

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    Ephelyon's Avatar
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    Challenging a decision of that nature is a lot of work, but having done it successfully myself I have stacks of resources available if you want them. Which LA is it if you don't mind my asking?

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    Somethings not right there, L2 and L3 should not be on the same grade and they should have different points scored/ Pay grade etc.

    Did you get that information from your school? I'd recommend speaking to someone from HR in your LA as my school often gets this kind of information completely arse backwards.

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    SYSMAN_MK's Avatar
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    It's all correct. Has been implemented at the start of this financial year. L2 has been scored at the bottom of the grade. L3 has been scored at the top (6 points short of the next grade) L1 is the grade below.

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    Feel for you, I have been in a similar situation yet my job wasn't evaluated.

    It was simply this is how my other School does it, you are going to be classed as a Technician (I was NM). Our team size was smaller then this other School yet our responsibilities was pretty much the same.

    In all honesty I didn't contend it, I was fuming over it not because they changed my job but because they didn't even talk to us or even evaluated what we did. We had one guy who was essentially the big boss who was responsible for all projectors, meetings, planning, budgets, governors/SLT. My self I did the servers and core problems and then the technician who did most of the run around jobs.

    We still worked as a team and still shared responsibilities so everyone had a breather, a taste of something different etc. It worked, we didn't have a good budget yet our daily problems was nothing compared to what other Schools our size suffered.

    Once I saw my name I went for another job, same money, bit more responsibility, closer to home and more chance of a progress in my life.

    Strangely enough the second I handed in my notice they hit the panic stations, they talked to my boss to see how he felt about it, they tried to talk to me about keeping me on and how can they make me happy etc. It was a strange feeling in all honesty because when all the new management came most staff felt like dirt. No one was happy except those in power and given promotions, everyone was afraid for their life.

    It was too late though, I got the other job and I have been very happy. I still miss a ton of people but most of them have moved on.

    At the end there is nothing stopping you from looking else where for a job, as long as they have followed the legal side of things there is little you can do.

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    Ephelyon's Avatar
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    You can still appeal up to two stages. I was successful in appealing mine, with the ramification that any NM around the County can now make an equal pay claim against my job spec and go up a grade. Setting just one precedent can make a huge difference owing to the way Single Status has to work.

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    SYSMAN_MK's Avatar
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    Change of job means looking out of the county as all the IT jobs in schools are going to be the same. Something which isn't viable at the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SYSMAN_MK View Post
    It's all correct. Has been implemented at the start of this financial year. L2 has been scored at the bottom of the grade. L3 has been scored at the top (6 points short of the next grade) L1 is the grade below.
    when you were JE'd did you just get a generic Job profile or did you need to fill out all the forms to get your role point scored etc?

    I still don't understand how two levels can be on the same grade/pay. Also, bear in mind that they would have to do this for all L2 & L3 posts throughout your local authority to avoid discrimination legal cases which is why we have Job Evaluation in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crumpet View Post
    when you were JE'd did you just get a generic Job profile or did you need to fill out all the forms to get your role point scored etc?

    I still don't understand how two levels can be on the same grade/pay. Also, bear in mind that they would have to do this for all L2 & L3 posts throughout your local authority to avoid discrimination legal cases which is why we have Job Evaluation in the first place.
    There were 3 generic IT Technician Role Profiles, L1-3. The L3 Role Profile is basically a Network Managers role, includes strategic, staff management and financial responsibilities. Also it is seems that only the IT Technician Role Profile has been affected this way. For example for the roles Teaching Assistant and Business Support the different levels are on different grades.
    Last edited by SYSMAN_MK; 8th May 2014 at 03:17 PM.

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    Garacesh's Avatar
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    The Job Evaluation seems like a joke to me. The JD I have now is absolutely ridiculous.
    BUT. The all-important number went up because I got bumped to the top of my payscale. So not up by much, but up nonetheless.

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    Ephelyon's Avatar
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    The nub of the problem is that the people compiling the generic County-wide JDQs often either don't have a technical background or don't understand the nuances of IT provision within education, such as the fact that role aggregation is far more widespread here than in many other sectors.

    The reason given is typically the need to maintain impartiality. My view is that there's impartiality on the one hand, but on the other there's just plain ignorance and ultimately that's no good either... no-one really wants to change it though as this "impartiality" certainly seems to be saving schools and LAs a good deal of money year on year!

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    Ephelyon's Avatar
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    From PMs with the OP today, another point raised was that some of the factors are automatically expected to be high whereas others are assumed to be low for jobs like these (the process of "sorethumbing" is quite heavily involved here). "Emotional Demands" is a typically low factor in these roles, which I don't think shows a great deal of understanding of the realities in this sector. It's all very well to judge things by how they "should" be (and in whose opinion anyway?), but at the end of the day that's pretty useless a lot of the time. Things need to be judged by how they actually are.

    Last September, for example, following a pupil's tragic passing over the summer, I was tasked with reading through all of his work (on the system) to make sure it was all "suitable" (because I can judge that...) in preparation for the "final package" to be sent home to his family. A cracking little CV he had too; "when I decide to do something it gets done", he said. And he'd done a report on his work experience placement with a legal firm, but instead of saying "shadowing a lawyer" he kept saying "overshadowing a lawyer". That tickled me darkly and I remember thinking "Bet we'd all have liked to do that at some stage!"

    If we want to play the "automatic" game, I think all school roles, whether or not they're traditionally supposed to involve regular direct contact with the children, ought to be given at least an automatic Level 2 for that factor, possibly Level 3 depending on the role.
    Last edited by Ephelyon; 9th May 2014 at 12:34 AM.

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    Pottsey's Avatar
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    Here is my job Emotional Demands as JE see it.

    “Duties are unlikely to require the job holder to deal with individuals whose circumstances may leave them feeling upset, aggrieved, or angry and which will not cause any ongoing distress to the postholder e.g. dealing with those who have physical or mental impairments, or are suffering from serious illness or to deal with either distressing or disturbing subject matter (people related behaviour, including any form of verbal abuse and aggression from people is covered under the Working Conditions factor).”

    In reality I work in a special need school often 1 on 1 directly with children who have learning difficulties and associated emotional and behavioural difficulties, communication difficulties and autistic spectrum disorders. Been trained and have had to restrain violent children. We all get verbal abuse and aggression here and well do I need go on, you get the picture. This sums up my view on JE and shows how big a joke it can be.

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    Garacesh's Avatar
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    I remember that having "high precision with a computer mouse" is a requirement of my JD.
    Nothing about being able to type, though.. (I don't recall.. Might have to review my JD later)

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    Ephelyon's Avatar
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    That's Physical Skills under NJC. I managed to raise that from Level 2 to Level 3 by pointing out that a number of internal County IT roles had already been given a 3 owing to what they could mess up if they got it wrong, and then making the point that that same requirement for both speed and accuracy actually applies to us too.



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