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General Chat Thread, Eurovision, Nil Points in General; Isn't the whole point, though, that you can be whoever you want to be? The fact that there are LGBT ...
  1. #46
    SiliconAlley_Sam's Avatar
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    Isn't the whole point, though, that you can be whoever you want to be? The fact that there are LGBT communities complaining that she doesn't exactly conform to a transgender stereotype makes me facepalm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    Interesting, but if you go and look around the internet there are some LGBT communities who are not happy that the Austrian describes her/himself as transgender. They are saying that a true transgender wants to be the opposite sex to the one they were born as - and so, why does s/he have a beard? Women don't generally have beards and if you want to be a woman, why would you have one?
    Dictionary definition of transgender: denoting or relating to a person whose self-identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender

    I think she fits that bill perfectly!

    She says she grew the beard as a statement that you don't have to conform to social norms, you can be who you want to be and people should accept that. (struggling to find a direct quote right now, will post source when I do)

    There are nay-sayers in all walks of life but overall, I don't see how this can be anything but positive for the LGBT community...

    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    I only saw the song after she had won - presumably she sang it better the first time around?
    Not really but as has already been said, Eurovision is political, it's not about talent.

    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    Why the female presented was wearing a dress that didn't fit her and was supremely unflattering, I can't imagine
    Meow!
    Last edited by LosOjos; 12th May 2014 at 12:25 PM. Reason: "Update" bug

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  4. #48

    witch's Avatar
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    That definition is interesting. This from a dictionary of contempory English:
    "a general word for people who feel that they belong to the other sex, and not the sex they were born with"

    I can see why they would be confused if they are going by that definition.
    As for people complaining that she doesn't fit a stereotype - why should LGBT communities be any the less likely to behave differently to the rest of us

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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconAlley_Sam View Post
    Isn't the whole point, though, that you can be whoever you want to be? The fact that there are LGBT communities complaining that she doesn't exactly conform to a transgender stereotype makes me facepalm.
    Maybe they should be a bit more tolerant of how the rest of the World does its business.

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    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    As for people complaining that she doesn't fit a stereotype - why should LGBT communities be any the less likely to behave differently to the rest of us
    They shouldn't necessarily, you just live in hope that a person who has been subject to prejudice would be a little more open-minded about others... it's like one group of people complaining about racism aimed at them whilst simultaneously directing racism at a third group of people; you'd hope that empathy would prevail but unfortunately we humans are a complicated bunch!

    That said, you can't take the complaints of a few as the opinion of many...

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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    They shouldn't necessarily, you just live in hope that a person who has been subject to prejudice would be a little more open-minded about others... it's like one group of people complaining about racism aimed at them whilst simultaneously directing racism at a third group of people; you'd hope that empathy would prevail but unfortunately we humans are a complicated bunch!

    That said, you can't take the complaints of a few as the opinion of many...
    Exactly. Sadly these days those who call for 'tolerance' are often pretty intolerant of other peoples views themselves.

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    witch's Avatar
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    From what I have read, some of them, who feel that they are in the wrong body, and who just want to swap over as quietly as possible, feel that he is making them look more like freaks when they feel that they have a condition that can be adjusted so that they can live a normal life as the sex they feel they are.
    Having people stare at a "woman" who chooses to grow a beard makes them feel very uncomfortable. They don't have any objection to Conchita doing what she does, just that they feel that she really isn't a true transgender and would prefer her not to describe herself as such as it makes their lives less easy as transgenders.

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    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    From what I have read, some of them, who feel that they are in the wrong body, and who just want to swap over as quietly as possible, feel that he is making them look more like freaks when they feel that they have a condition that can be adjusted so that they can live a normal life as the sex they feel they are.
    Having people stare at a "woman" who chooses to grow a beard makes them feel very uncomfortable. They don't have any objection to Conchita doing what she does, just that they feel that she really isn't a true transgender and would prefer her not to describe herself as such as it makes their lives less easy as transgenders.
    Fair enough, I hadn't looked at it like that. I don't think the intention was to make it a "freak show" but it was certainly to draw attention. I can see why it might be difficult though I suppose; I know for male to female 'transgenders' (is that the right word?) in particular visible stubble can be very embarrassing; having someone compare you to Conchita in that circumstance could be fairly crushing I imagine!

  10. #54
    CAM
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    I imagine such comparisons will be very common now!

    To be honest, I'm more annoyed that The Netherlands didn't get it with a proper song. I've been longing for the UK Eurovision board to root around Camden for a good indie band to walk in and sweep the competition away as we have lots of talent there. I reckon a bit more pace to the song and they would have clinched it.

  11. #55

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAM View Post
    I reckon a bit more pace to the song and they would have clinched it.
    I reckon we could have put Elvis Presley himself on stage* and still wouldn't have won it; it has very little to do with talent! Hell, it has very little to do with the public vote either! Apparently, Poland got more public votes than anyone in the UK but as the "expert" panel scored them lowest, they got nil-points from us.

    Juries also get 50% stake in Semi-Final result | News | Eurovision Song Contest - Copenhagen 2014

    *I know even if he was alive we couldn't have done but that's not the point

  12. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    Eurovision is primarily politics and I have to say, I think it was good that Austria won.
    Normally I'd agree with this, but this year seemed different. There was still some obvious political voting but ultimately I think most of the best songs did actually rise to the top of the leader regardless. I think Austria were a worthy winner. Actually did like the song very much. Definately top 3. Personally I'd say Netherlands had the best track, but hey it came second.

    This year the voting seemd less politcal and more about the songs. Even Russia (who was constantly booed) deservedly climed the leaderboard.

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    SiliconAlley_Sam's Avatar
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    I've actually downloaded the Netherlands song, I liked it that much!



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