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General Chat Thread, Teacher stabbed to death at school in Leeds in General; Originally Posted by casey People have been saying things are going all to hell for millenia but we still haven't ...
  1. #121

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by casey View Post
    People have been saying things are going all to hell for millenia but we still haven't arrived there yet!
    That really depends on your definition of hell...

  2. #122
    mthomas08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMLightfoot View Post
    This thread is denigrating into a flame war.
    Totally agree with Lightfoot here, especially his entire post.

    The examples of different teachers was also a good point, I too have had the teachers who had the control of the class because of the shouting and another who simply never raised his voice but had the control. I agree with what others are saying about society, having worked in a School that has had severe trouble and those kids reminded me of my up bringing. It can be a million reasons why kids are the way that they are. My attitude towards Students who damage equipment is "They are kids".

    For the Student who did this murder will most likely spend his life regretting it and his life will never be the same as a result. The victims family will also never be the same. They all have my sympathy.

    Having been raised in a "troubled area" there really is a lot of reasons why kids do things (I was one of those kids). I had to seriously work hard to make something of my self.

    As for the flame wars on here it's usually based on the same thing "I have my opinion and I stick to it and I wont listen to what others say". Especially when facts are brought in, only have to look at other threads to see it usually the same ones (not naming and shaming).
    Then there is the "Nit picking" I noticed in threads, where some one will ignore all the facts and find that tiny part which may not include all the information. I too have had this done to me and it's not till everyone has joined in does the person admit that they are wrong, or its more like "my personal choice".

    In the words of Wise old Obi Wan - you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

    And in a forum it's really hard to type up everything we actually mean without creating a mile long post. And in all honesty I don't like reading them posts.

  3. #123


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    Quote Originally Posted by mthomas08 View Post
    And in all honesty I don't like reading them posts.
    Those posts*

    (Sorry, playful banter in response to some one will ignore all the facts and find that tiny part which may not include all the information. - don't hate me )

  4. #124
    mthomas08's Avatar
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    @Garacesh

    Trust you!!!

    That's being very nit picky! Although I didn't type what you just put ! Grrrrrrrrr

  5. Thanks to mthomas08 from:

    Garacesh (6th May 2014)

  6. #125


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    Quote Originally Posted by mthomas08 View Post
    That's being very nit picky! Although I didn't type what you just put ! Grrrrrrrrr
    You ruddy did! Those are exact quotes!

  7. #126

    abillybob's Avatar
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    OOOOOOOOOO a certain brown gooey substance is going to hit the fan I expect

  8. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by mthomas08 View Post
    My attitude towards Students who damage equipment is "They are kids".
    And at what point in life do they begin to realise that vandalism is not acceptable? 15? 25? 35? This is the problem. We're constantly making excuses for 'kids' yet wonder why by adulthood they are totally unprepared for the real world.

  9. #128


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    Quote Originally Posted by superatticman View Post
    And at what point in life do they begin to realise that vandalism is not acceptable? 15? 25? 35? This is the problem. We're constantly making excuses for 'kids' yet wonder why by adulthood they are totally unprepared for the real world.
    It varies. Some people never seem to realise. Some people ARE wired differently, you can call it 'mental illness' or whatever, but you may never be able to cure it. The fact is children of school age are likely to act in ways that are irresponsible or without consideration of the consequences of their actions. That is after all why they are deemed minors.

    Paradoxically, people will moan about how kids grow up so fast these days, that we expect too much of them too early and that we rob them of their childhood. After over 40 years of seeing both all I can conclude is that people like to generalise and people like to moan and ... well, it's much worse now than when I was young!

  10. 3 Thanks to pcstru:

    Bompalompalomp (7th May 2014), LosOjos (6th May 2014), spadam (6th May 2014)

  11. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    It varies. Some people never seem to realise. Some people ARE wired differently, you can call it 'mental illness' or whatever, but you may never be able to cure it. The fact is children of school age are likely to act in ways that are irresponsible or without consideration of the consequences of their actions. That is after all why they are deemed minors.

    Paradoxically, people will moan about how kids grow up so fast these days, that we expect too much of them too early and that we rob them of their childhood. After over 40 years of seeing both all I can conclude is that people like to generalise and people like to moan and ... well, it's much worse now than when I was young!
    Interesting stuff. At what point to you start to install serious discipline? Too early and its seen as 'unfair'. Too late and its seen as 'unfair' because the discipline suddenly comes as a shock and should have been administered earlier. Obviously a gradual increase in discipline is ideal but humans develop at different rates so you cannot apply the same levels of inertia to everyone.

    By the way I'm not a parent and have no interest in being one. However I do care about society as a whole and what we reap is what we sow!

  12. #130
    mthomas08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garacesh View Post
    You ruddy did! Those are exact quotes!
    Sorry was being sarcastic, hence the wink but that was aimed at the super long posts that I don't tend to read.
    @superatticman
    I was using the example at kids that damage the equipment, I don't class a 25 or a 35 Year old as a kid even if their mental age fits
    As PC said though some peoples mentality is very different, my other half works with people that require a bit of support. And although they can do most things on their own there has been moments where they needed support. That support can really be for simply easy things the rest of us take for granted.

    Did I mention anything about nit picking earlier?

  13. #131


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    Quote Originally Posted by superatticman View Post
    At what point to you start to install serious discipline?
    As opposed to frivolous discipline :-)! I think you do it based on the individual. Parents are (or should be) well placed to make a judgement, perhaps schools are better placed in some senses, since they are decoupled from the parental bond and can take a more dispassionate view.
    By the way I'm not a parent and have no interest in being one. However I do care about society as a whole and what we reap is what we sow!
    Sure. The problem then IMO is to try and avoid knee jerk reactions and recognise that societal problems are generally hugely complex and rarely have simple 'cures'. Most importantly, 'society' is an aggregation of individuals and true justice requires consideration of individual circumstances. A child raised in a caring home is unlikely to have the same appreciation of consequences as a child who sees domestic violence every day. That's not saying we should excuse the actions of the latter, just that taking the same approach is unlikely to work and expecting the same rate of progress is unlikely to be realistic.

  14. #132

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    A child raised in a caring home is unlikely to have the same appreciation of consequences as a child who sees domestic violence every day. That's not saying we should excuse the actions of the latter, just that taking the same approach is unlikely to work and expecting the same rate of progress is unlikely to be realistic.
    This is a very good point well worth bearing in mind, and it ties in well with some of the points made over in this thread about how the "good" kids are the ones who are most receptive to discipline.

    It's too easy to look at a "problem" child and write them off as a waste of space, it's much more difficult to try to work out why they're acting out and to empathise with them. That's not to say that some kids aren't just a PITA, but quite often the really bad ones have problems at home. People can be far too quick to write these kids off when a little help could potentially prevent future tragedies.

    At the other end of the scale, I've been in to schools who reward their PA kids with iPods and gift vouchers if they manage to get their attendance up to national average, but the kids who are there on time every day get nothing.

    There has to be a balance!

  15. #133

    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    At the other end of the scale, I've been in to schools who reward their PA kids with iPods and gift vouchers if they manage to get their attendance up to national average, but the kids who are there on time every day get nothing.
    That sort of thing annoys me to no end...

    I have seen, first hand, a pupil who refused to go to class being given a laptop to play work on... Said laptop was actually bought for SEN pupils to use.

  16. #134
    cpjitservices's Avatar
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    Do we know whats happened to the Pupil that stabbed the teacher ??

    As in, have they admitted it and are going to be sentenced or what ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    At the other end of the scale, I've been in to schools who reward their PA kids with iPods and gift vouchers if they manage to get their attendance up to national average, but the kids who are there on time every day get nothing.
    I've heard tell through-the-grapevine of the 'naughty kids' being taken out on trips and such here, although I will admit I have no way to verify if that's true or just hot-air.

    A while ago we did a token-based reward system for kids for having good manners, and we also have a continuous 'house point' scheme going on. There was no end to the [Everyone] emails detailing that the children who were always polite and always did their work weren't being noticed and given politeness/house tokens, and the same for positive behaviour notes on SIMS. Which is a shame. I understand the need to reward the disruptive and poorly behaved children for correcting their behaviour, but when something like that is put into place, please don't neglect the children that have no need to make any corrections

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