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General Chat Thread, Teacher stabbed to death at school in Leeds in General; Originally Posted by Garacesh I'm sorry, but when I was in primary school, I certainly understood that bleach and other ...
  1. #91

    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garacesh View Post
    I'm sorry, but when I was in primary school, I certainly understood that bleach and other cleaning products (which I suspect is what it means by bleach-like) were not to be ingested.
    As did I.

    And so do these boys... It's why they used it.

    What I'm saying is that they've now learned [or it's been implied and now verified] that if they just say "I didn't know it was bad" they'll get off with a slap on the wrist and a "don't do it again".

  2. #92

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    Hmmm... Back before the 90's you never heard of anything like this! This is my point, I don't know what's going on with society these days and I'm sick and tired of how the public respond to one another, the simple "Hello" "Good Morning" has disappeared also in the street, when I say Hi to a neighbor on my street or smile at them they get all confused, it's almost like I'm threatening them. Parents don't dish out discipline like they used to either creating children which are more corrupt and nasty. Age ratings on Video Games, Films go a miss with most parents which to an extent I deem ok but don't let your 9 year old shoot prostitutes and run people over in Grand Theft Auto, for god sake.

    Majority of the public have no respect for Emergency Services, other members of the public or anyone else that isn't them for that matter. It's like the whole UK has gone off it's rails.

    Please understand I'm just voicing my opinions before some high horse person decides to slate me and post 100,000 links to websites showing statistics of how I am wrong, I don't care the point is this is how I feel in today's Society, Threatened, Under-Appreciated and an outcast and I'm pretty sure a lot of people do, I think this has something to do with how children are being bought up in this day of age and how they determine right from wrong when they get older.

  3. #93

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    I'm really sorry you feel like this. Of course there are many examples of the sort of behavior you mention, but do try and remember that there are many many decent people who are trying to do the right thing, whether that be at work or when bringing up their children. I disagree with such sweeping statements as "the majority of the public...etc" or "parents don't..."- I really don't think that even the Daily Fail shows that almost every person doesn't care about anyone else.
    I think you need to focus on the good that there is around, not just the bad, and remember that most people live quiet, law-abiding lives that don't get into the press, and whipping up fear of the apocalypse is what the news juggernaut does.
    As for not hearing about anything like this before the 90's - sorry, but as someone who was around then, that is untrue I am afraid. There has always, and will always be things like this going on, and I for one do not think that physical punishment will change anything, not least because, by your own argument, people are desensitised to it anyway.

  4. #94

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    The only real difference I can see between now and "the good old days" is that the press get away with exaggerating the extent of a problem a lot more now than they used to. The UK has a population of approximately 64m people; 3 incidents in 12 months isn't a major problem (the three listed in this thread are the only ones I'm aware of, I'm not saying there haven't been more).

    That's not to say these aren't awful and sometimes tragic incidents, but it's no refelection on the general populous. These 3 have all happened within a week of each other which makes things seem worse, but it's nothing more than a statistical anomaly. Average the number of these types of incident out over a 12 month period and take the size of the population in to consideration and it's safe to say the country isn't going to hell in a hand-basket.

    As for people's manners in public, yeah I agree to an extent that a lot of people seem cold. I wasn't around in the "old days" to know if things were really any better then, but if they were then I'd put the change down to sensationalist headlines from the likes of the Daily Fail stirring up the public's fear of one another more than any real change in human emotion.

  5. Thanks to LosOjos from:

    Garacesh (6th May 2014)

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    Galway's Avatar
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    Blue sky twaddle.
    Give it 20 years and it will finally sink in for everyone.

  7. #96


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    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    Please understand I'm just voicing my opinions before some high horse person decides to slate me and post 100,000 links to websites showing statistics of how I am wrong, I don't care the point is this is how I feel
    So the point is how you feel and any evidence to the contrary is entirely irrelevant. I think when people just straight up admit that evidence makes no difference to their 'opinion', there is not a lot that can be done.

  8. #97

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galway View Post
    Blue sky twaddle.
    Give it 20 years and it will finally sink in for everyone.
    Was that aimed at me?

  9. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    Hmmm... Back before the 90's you never heard of anything like this!
    Not hearing about it is not the same as it not happening. The 90s didn't have ubiquitous internet access, 24 hour news etc...

    This is my point, I don't know what's going on with society these days and I'm sick and tired of how the public respond to one another, the simple "Hello" "Good Morning" has disappeared also in the street, when I say Hi to a neighbor on my street or smile at them they get all confused, it's almost like I'm threatening them. Parents don't dish out discipline like they used to either creating children which are more corrupt and nasty. Age ratings on Video Games, Films go a miss with most parents which to an extent I deem ok but don't let your 9 year old shoot prostitutes and run people over in Grand Theft Auto, for god sake.
    This has been caused by a change in the way we house people. It used to be that streets were often co-workers, all with kids in the same school etc... So there's little overlap, and therefore people simply don't know each other. We also don't have local pubs any more really, or local shops. So opportunities to get to know your neighbours are few and far between, unless you live in a little village.

    Majority of the public have no respect for Emergency Services, other members of the public or anyone else that isn't them for that matter. It's like the whole UK has gone off it's rails.
    Police? Sure, respect for them has disappeared since they changed from being a community police service to being a para-military arm of central government.

    Please understand I'm just voicing my opinions before some high horse person decides to slate me and post 100,000 links to websites showing statistics of how I am wrong, I don't care the point is this is how I feel in today's Society, Threatened, Under-Appreciated and an outcast and I'm pretty sure a lot of people do, I think this has something to do with how children are being bought up in this day of age and how they determine right from wrong when they get older.
    Perceptions are important, but often they are somewhat wrong as the facts don't back them up. We all know this from working in customer facing roles.

  10. #99


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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    I wasn't around in the "old days" to know if things were really any better then, but if they were then I'd put the change down to sensationalist headlines from the likes of the Daily Fail stirring up the public's fear of one another more than any real change in human emotion.
    Or just ignorance. How many of us actually have enough awareness of what was going on x years ago, other than in our own small worlds. People usually don't have the evidence on which to make such judgements and judging by the post above, people don't even want to be confronted by evidence that might upset their world view. All probably summed up by the Simpsons :

    "Lisa, your tears say more than real evidence ever could".

  11. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    So the point is how you feel and any evidence to the contrary is entirely irrelevant. I think when people just straight up admit that evidence makes no difference to their 'opinion', there is not a lot that can be done.
    How I feel and my opinion to something is completely different. You can't change the way I feel in today's society by pointing out figures though you could change my opinion my showing me the facts! 'Opinion' is proberbly used wrongly I meant it's how I feel in today's society, the fact I sit there with my girlfriend and she rarely takes her eyes off her phone, same with my mum! Technology, the media, video games, entertainment I think has changed our society in a big way. Children are growing up in a more sexual, violent world then back in the 'good ol' days' and to top it all off they don't talk to their family or peers as much as they should as they are glued to an iPad or playing video games.

    It has to have an effect, whether you want to believe it or not and it effects many of us. Sure there was one sick kid that played up in a blue moon but now it seems very young children are getting involved in violent crimes very frequently, I believe it has to have something to do with the way society is and the way we now view technology.

  12. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    Or just ignorance. How many of us actually have enough awareness of what was going on x years ago, other than in our own small worlds. People usually don't have the evidence on which to make such judgements and judging by the post above, people don't even want to be confronted by evidence that might upset their world view. All probably summed up by the Simpsons :

    "Lisa, your tears say more than real evidence ever could".
    I wasn't born until '88, I don't think it's fair to call me ignorant because I didn't experience life before I was born... I know the anecdotal evidence says things were better back then but I don't put much weight in anecdotal evidence. So, I don't know what the world was like before '88 (actually, I couldn't honestly say I really know what the world was like before I started work, so 2004!) but I do know that the press like to whip up a frenzy because that's what sells. I can't say for sure that that's what has caused people to be a little cold, but I know my grandparents and my OH's grandparents genuinely worry about what they read in the papers and I also know that what they read isn't a true reflection of UK daily life.

  13. #102

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    Since the beginning of the year the Daily Telegraph have been providing a PDF of the paper of that day from 100 years ago to commemorate the first World War.
    I have been looking at them 3 or 4 days of each week and what I have noticed is that very little has changed.
    Murders were comitted, children were abused, arson and firebombings occurred and everyday people were conned by crooks.
    The depressing thing to me is not that thing have become worse but that very little has improved.

    I agree with Witch in that I think the majority are decent, law abiding and try to do what is right and the very small minority of 'wrong doers' get a lot of attention.
    It seems to me the media are much more omnipresent these days (on your phone, computer, TV with rolling 24 hour news and in print) so things seem worse than they used to be.

    There is a quote which I saw once which was basically a real moan about young people running wild and being disrespectful to their elders, and at the end it credited the writer, who was a Roman from about 2000 years ago, so I figure it's mostly the perception that things were better in "the old days" not necessarily that they really were.

  14. 2 Thanks to casey:

    LosOjos (6th May 2014), witch (6th May 2014)

  15. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by casey View Post
    Since the beginning of the year the Daily Telegraph have been providing a PDF of the paper of that day from 100 years ago to commemorate the first World War.
    I have been looking at them 3 or 4 days of each week and what I have noticed is that very little has changed.
    Murders were comitted, children were abused, arson and firebombings occurred and everyday people were conned by crooks.
    For some reason this part reminded me of "Everybody's Free (to Wear Sunscreen)", with the part of the lyrics that goes: -
    "Accept certain inalienable truths,
    Prices will rise, politicians will philander, you, too, will get old
    And when you do, you'll fantasize that when you were young
    Prices were reasonable, politicians were noble
    And children respected their elders"
    Last edited by Grey-gear; 6th May 2014 at 12:30 PM.

  16. Thanks to Grey-gear from:

    Bananas (6th May 2014)

  17. #104


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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    I wasn't born until '88, I don't think it's fair to call me ignorant because I didn't experience life before I was born...
    Well, when I don't know something, I'm ignorant of it. The word seems entirely appropriate to describe a situation of not knowing - regardless of the reason for that. It isn't an insult, nor intended as one. There is a lot of fear of ignorance and people have strong motivations to have an opinion without any evidence. Not to be insulting (again!) but IMO the younger you are the more you will be afflicted by that. Oscar Wild summed it up well : "I'm not young enough to know everything". I think age brings more willingness to recognise when we don't know, perhaps that's because experience teaches that recognising when you don't know something is pretty useful knowledge. Perhaps you just become more comfortable with the knowledge of not knowing.

    I'm not really commenting on the issue of the "youth of today". I can't think how to even reasonably frame the question in an objective way. (My own experiences when young would suggest we were no better - but that is just more anecdote). I was commenting on the dismissal of evidence before anyone had even bothered to bring any. That just strikes me as risible.
    Last edited by pcstru; 6th May 2014 at 12:37 PM.

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    Accept it or not, ignore it if you want, but the world is changing fast.
    Too many things are happening at once, a change for the worse is inevitable.



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