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General Chat Thread, Teacher stabbed to death at school in Leeds in General; Originally Posted by gwendes Originally Posted by abillybob As a result they are not scared of getting into trouble as ...
  1. #76


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    Quote Originally Posted by gwendes View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob
    As a result they are not scared of getting into trouble as there is no longer a way to discipline the children. This also makes the case that staff are more worried to confront children anymore as they think it will lead to them loosing their job or getting themselves into trouble so staff ignore the issues!
    Rubbish.
    Going to have to say that's certainly not rubbish as I've had more than a handful of the staff divulge this exact fear to me in private conversation in the two-and-a-half years I've worked here. It's 'safer' to placate (or, in effect, bribe) an unruly child into a compromise than it is to directly challenge them and try and push them back into obeying the rules fully. This is because the child still feels that they 'got their own way', whilst the situation has at least been mitigated, though not resolved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeMarchand View Post
    I do worry about this attitude that so many children - hell, people - have, and wonder if we spend too much time telling them all what special little flowers they are. I work in a few primaries, and it's a minor miracle if a child steps aside to let you past - even if you're obviously carrying a heavy load
    i dont see that most kids will hold doors, step aside etc to the point of actually getting in the way more than if they had just walked by and thats over several schools some of which in "bad areas".

    i also wonder about wether marking people out as special for the slightest little thing isnt a bad idea. Take something like adhd is it diagnosed more because more people have it, its easier to diagnose or because its easier to deal ith a kid whos drugged up to be more docile (i suspect in a lot of cases its the latter and they dont get enough exercise). I suspect alot of probelms stem from not saying NO to kids and not allowing them to make mistakes. I know as a kid i fell of my bike and otherwise injured myself im not sure kids are given the freedom to do that now and if you dont learn your limits by from time to time going too far how do you learn what you can/cant do

  3. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by penfold View Post
    Can I just ask why this thread seems to have turned into an argument here? I've only skim read it so I may have missed something but from what I read @abillybob seems to be highlighting the fact that lots of children either do not know right from wrong or don't care that they are doing wrong because they will never be held accountable for their actions. I didn't read that they need to be shouted at or hit for this to happen, I read it as teachers losing the power to dish out a punishment that is suitable to the child's actions.

    And however you try and put it, my wife was extremely worried because some child had informed the school that she had hit them during the lunch play time. She was worried that she would lose her job and therefore her career because she had no way of proving it was false. The fact is other children confirmed something happened but couldn't say exactly. It took 3 days before they found out that the day that said it happened thankfully was the day she was not in school and they admitted to making it up. Nothing happened to those children but my wife barely slept for 3 days due to stress. So yes, I agree that children know they can get away with an awful lot without the fear of any consequences.

    I don't think this was the case we are talking about here though. It is a very tragic thing that has happened and as has been said before, you should be able to go into school feeling safe and being able to come home to your loved ones, that is both children and staff many of which have had their lives altered forever after this attack.
    @penfold has rounded it up brilliantly, that is all I was trying to say I think this thread is going off in a slight tangent now. After watching "Teen Killers" it angered me that even though child X had brutally murdered his Mother and Farther, child X was complaining about how his childhood wasn't good and that they came from a broken home, the show played sad music at this point as if trying to express sympathy to the viewer for the teenager who killed his mother and farther in cold blood. I PERSONALLY don't think that is a viable excuse for killing your parents or anyone for that matter and wish people would stop using it as an excuse. This is what I'm trying to get across it was @gwendes that bought up the factor about mentally unstable people, I was merely putting my views across!

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    Every society has its handful of nutcases and morons. Wasn't a baby left for dead in a street in China at some point last year? This from a society which has capital punishment and very strict ethics.

    I hated school, hated my parents for frog marching me to the school gates, took solace in listening to rebellious music. But would I have ever dreamed of laying a hand on my parents, teachers etc? No!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMLightfoot View Post
    I think it's wrong to even speculate on abuse. Until the facts of the matter are released it would be respectful to the family and the victim to keep such speculation in check.
    I wasn't trying to speculate, I was trying to highlight that without knowing the circumstances (which may never change) there are hundreds of possible reasons of why this has happened, ranging from the well-liked teacher having a previously unknown dark streak to a mentally and emotionally damaged young child making an impulse decision that they'll regret from the rest of our lives. I wasn't aiming to imply that's what I thought had happened, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by superatticman View Post
    Every society has its handful of nutcases and morons. Wasn't a baby left for dead in a street in China at some point last year? This from a society which has capital punishment and very strict ethics.
    Unfortunately that's all too common in China, I believe. The one-child policy often results in baby girls being abandoned and the state not informed of their existence as the census is to have 'strong, male' children that will become rich, powerful, and pass on your family heritage.
    Last edited by Garacesh; 29th April 2014 at 03:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwendes View Post
    <SNIP>

    "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." - Socrates 469-399BC

    Unprofessional? Cheers!
    Quote by Socrates…or is it? | Why We Do It!

    Just saying

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    gwendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    Maybe not - it can certainly be traced to the beginning of the century and it is verifiable by observation

    This thread is too heated to contribute to now- I'm happy to discuss by PM or an open letter format by blog though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    No, no, don't misunderstand this is not what I'm trying to say at all, mental illness is a different matter altogether. What I'm saying is that when people say the person involved has been mentally scared by his/her mother or close relative becoming brain damaged this does not excuse the perpetrator then going around and killing people as they have had a hard childhood in result to their close relative being brain damaged. I am NOT saying in anyway that a person WITH a mental illness is at fault I understand that they don't think like us and they can be dangerous as they can't sometimes determine right from wrong because they are ill!
    Why do you get to decide that someone having a traumatic isn't a behavioural/mental problem. PTSD is serious, for example... That's my point really, you're trying to create a division between these sorts of crimes when even medical professionals and psychologists struggle doing just that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey-gear View Post
    Jesus Christ... What the [censored] is going on?

    That's 3 in rapid succession.

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    Also this: BBC News - Primary school boys 'poured bleach in teacher's coffee'
    What the heck is happening to these kids to drive them this far?

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    Warwickshire Police confirmed officers had attended the school on Tuesday and added the boys "did not realise the seriousness" of what they had done.Police said it had been an "isolated incident", which was dealt with internally by the school.
    Emphasis mine.

    Plead ignorance and there's no consequences. They're the older side of Primary, so at or above the age of criminal responsibility.

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    Hopefully there is no more case like this

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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    Plead ignorance and there's no consequences. They're the older side of Primary, so at or above the age of criminal responsibility.
    I'm sorry, but when I was in primary school, I certainly understood that bleach and other cleaning products (which I suspect is what it means by bleach-like) were not to be ingested.

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    CAM
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    "With the cooperation of their parents, the two pupils concerned were removed from their normal lessons and were disciplined by the school, in a manner consistent with the school's normal pastoral policy.
    From the Telegraph. Internal exclusion seems about right for the bleach incident since they didn't know better. Full exclusion is always a final resort.

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