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General Chat Thread, Teacher stabbed to death at school in Leeds in General; Originally Posted by CAM Wait...when did giving lines get banned? I remember being terrified of having to do those in ...
  1. #31

    abillybob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAM View Post
    Wait...when did giving lines get banned? I remember being terrified of having to do those in middle school (our teacher called them definitions and we had to handwrite words and their meaning from a dictionary).
    I didn't think it had until I told a student to do so. I got a good telling off from the head as the parent complained about it. I don't think they're banned per-say although this student tried to make out I was making him do Slave Labour (Same as making him scrub the floor)! So don't even bother doing this kind of thing now.... well what can I do? Not much! Some kind of child protection company would be on my back telling me off!

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    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    this student tried to make out I was making him do Slave Labour (Same as making him scrub the floor)!
    That would be a much more effective detention, if you asked me..

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    AMLightfoot's Avatar
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    Part of why I gave up on teaching - when I was a kid and we were properly disciplined and our parents were allowed to discipline properly there was very little of this 'feral yoof' culture. The problem is lack of appropriate and proportionate discipline. The punishments just aren't enough of a deterrent. Parents don't care and don't discipline their children. When I was a trainee teacher I gave a disruptive class a whole-class detention and one of the little darlings turned up with a letter from her mum saying she wouldn't be attending my detention because her daughter said she wasn't involved. The point was to punish the whole class for getting out of hand and taking advantage of disruptive kids to derail the lesson. You can't win against the 'my kid is innocent' mentality. Parents should be allowed to spank their children. There is a huge difference between a spank and a beating.

  4. #34

    abillybob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garacesh View Post
    That would be a much more effective detention, if you asked me..
    They used to make me scrape chewing gum off the bottom of tables!!! Can't do that anymore either, but trust me it stopped me misbehaving

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    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMLightfoot View Post
    The point was to punish the whole class for getting out of hand and taking advantage of disruptive kids to derail the lesson.
    I'm sorry, but I'd be on your case if you threw my kid in detention because of something someone else did...

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    abillybob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    I'm sorry, but I'd be on your case if you threw my kid in detention because of something someone else did...
    But that's not the point, it's the impact it makes, the fact the bad kids have got the good kids in trouble can lead to embarrassment and upset and the good kids would blame those that where disrupting the lesson giving more of a punishment after the detention, no child wants to upset their peers they normally misbehave to show off in front of their friends. The bad children won't have done it again in fear they will upset their friends. Plus if a whole class is pretty much acting up it's hard to keep track of what student should be in detention and who shouldn't be! I'd agree with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    But that's not the point, it's the impact it makes, the fact the bad kids have got the good kids in trouble can lead to embarrassment and upset and the good kids would blame those that where disrupting the lesson giving more of a punishment after the detention, no child wants to upset their peers they normally misbehave to show off in front of their friends. The bad children won't have done it again in fear they will upset their friends. Plus if a whole class is pretty much acting up it's hard to keep track of what student should be in detention and who shouldn't be! I'd agree with it.
    Got to agree. If punishing the individual doesn't work, punish the entire group and have them voice their displeasure at the 'naughty' kids, it'll soon stem the flow of disruption. Although it reads to me that @AMLightfoot meant the 'bad' kids were being too disruptive and the 'good' kids were using that as an excuse to doss off. Realistically what should have been happening is the 'good' kids should have been telling the 'bad' kids to sit down and shut up. Peer pressure can be used in a positive way.

  8. #38

    localzuk's Avatar
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    RIP to the poor teacher and condolences to her family and friends. We've got our flag at half mast today.

    Respect for teachers has plummeted, and it isn't helped by the government demonising them all the time. There are very few effective courses of action for misbehaviour now.

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    Grey-gear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicholab View Post
    The child involved sees lying down in the gutter with a bullet hole thorough his head as a carer option.
    Not unless the student is named but as someone under the age of 16 they most likeily not give out the name or have the student name changed so a normal life can be obtianed after the matter is settled.
    Last edited by Grey-gear; 29th April 2014 at 10:59 AM.

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    AMLightfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garacesh View Post
    Got to agree. If punishing the individual doesn't work, punish the entire group and have them voice their displeasure at the 'naughty' kids, it'll soon stem the flow of disruption. Although it reads to me that @AMLightfoot meant the 'bad' kids were being too disruptive and the 'good' kids were using that as an excuse to doss off. Realistically what should have been happening is the 'good' kids should have been telling the 'bad' kids to sit down and shut up. Peer pressure can be used in a positive way.
    Exactly this. It's a recognised behaviour management technique we were taught about in teacher training. What happened was that the usual group of 4 disruptive students (2 of which were called Jack - make of that what you will) were playing up. This draws teacher attention away from the rest of the class. So the rest of the class were using the 'cover' of the disruption to ignore instructions, get up from their seats and wander around. Girls were playing about on their mobile phones, a couple of boys were tossing some beanbag ball thing about. There was so much generalised misbehaviour that in the end I put the whole class in detention because I simply couldn't proportionately punish each child depending on what % of the disruption he or she was involved in. The end result was that the task I had set the class was NOT completed by a SINGLE CHILD. Including the supposed 'innocent' girl. Therefore the bottom line was that I set a task, they chose to use the disruptive kids as an excuse not to do the task I set and to mess about so I set the whole class a lunchtime detention during which they would spend the time completing the task they failed to do. The point of the punishment was that they wasted the lesson time messing about, so I would use their 'free time' to complete the task. I thought this was a fairly reasonable and proportionate response actually.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    But that's not the point, it's the impact it makes, the fact the bad kids have got the good kids in trouble can lead to embarrassment and upset and the good kids would blame those that where disrupting the lesson giving more of a punishment after the detention, no child wants to upset their peers they normally misbehave to show off in front of their friends. The bad children won't have done it again in fear they will upset their friends. Plus if a whole class is pretty much acting up it's hard to keep track of what student should be in detention and who shouldn't be! I'd agree with it.
    When I was at school if my parents were contacted they would always side with the school/teacher, no matter how much I protested. It seems these days parents always side with their little darlings no matter what evidence the school provides. I think some parents would be shocked at what we see daily in classrooms.

    It would be interesting to see the behavioural past of the student, I wonder if the school had tried to exclude him in the past.
    Last edited by tommej; 29th April 2014 at 11:32 AM.

  12. #42


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    Quote Originally Posted by tommej View Post
    When I was at school if my parents were contacted they would always side with the school/teacher, no matter how much I protested. It seems these days parents always side with their little darlings no matter what evidence the school provides. I think some parents would be shocked at what we see daily in classrooms.

    It would be interesting to see the behavioural past of the student, I wonder if the school had tried to exclude him in the past.
    This too. I think most parents of 'innocent' kids who claim they'd have a problem with a teacher disciplining their child for something they apparently, allegedly 'didn't do' would be surprised and probably shocked to watch a fly-on-the-wall video of their child during school hours. Children lie to their parents. This is fact. 'No mum, I promise it wasn't me. I didn't do it'. No, maybe not directly but would you as a parent be happy to see your little darling braiding her friends hair instead of learning about Newton's laws of motion? Would you as a parent be happy to see a candid video of your son with his shirt untucked gobbing off to a teacher or using a marker pen he STOLE to draw penises on the desk instead of doing the assigned exercise on combustion? I'm certain you didn't buy your son a permanent marker as an appropriate school stationary item so clearly he came into possession of it via illicit means - either by taking it from home (which he knows he shouldn't be doing) or by stealing it from another student/teacher/stock cupboard.

    As a parent, instead of gobbing off to the teacher about how innocent your child is, you should be educating your child that this behaviour by others is affecting their education and empowering them to do something about it.

    If SOME of that class had completed the task I would have stated that only those with uncompleted tasks would be required at the detention. But since I asked them to show me their work on the way out the door and barely a single child had even bothered to start it, regardless of how innocent dear Sophia (pseudonym) was in chucking stuff about, she took advantage of the chaos to doss off. This was as much worthy of detention as anything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey-gear View Post
    Not unless the student is named but as someone under the age of 16 they most likeily not give out the name or have the student name changed so a normal life can be obtianed after the matter is settled.
    Why should the child be entitled to a 'Normal Life'?

    The poor lady's family will never again have a 'Normal Life'.

  14. #44
    Grey-gear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    Why should the child be entitled to a 'Normal Life'?

    The poor lady's family will never again have a 'Normal Life'.
    I know and agree with you, but it has happened in the past were a person under the age on 16 has murdered someone and then later after serving their time been able to have a normalish life. Until all the facts come light we can only guess how this will play out.

  15. #45

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    Why should the child be entitled to a 'Normal Life'?

    The poor lady's family will never again have a 'Normal Life'.
    While I agree and deeply sympathise with the teacher family, your question assumes the pupil lead anything remotely like a 'Normal Life' leading up to the incident. As I said above we may never know all the facts and can only speculate. I think there's likely to be some major child protection and social services issues surrounding this case.
    Last edited by tmcd35; 29th April 2014 at 12:04 PM.

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