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General Chat Thread, Teacher stabbed to death at school in Leeds in General; Originally Posted by cpjitservices Do we know whats happened to the Pupil that stabbed the teacher ?? As in, have ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpjitservices View Post
    Do we know whats happened to the Pupil that stabbed the teacher ??

    As in, have they admitted it and are going to be sentenced or what ?
    Charged with Murder. Trial scheduled for November.

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    witch's Avatar
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    I'll tell you what age you start disciplining your children - around 3 years old, when they are old enough to understand what you are saying.
    For example, if I 2 year old throws or snatches something, you quietly say "no, don't do that" and take said thing away. But at 3 - yes, 3 (those of you who are parents will know how much a 3 year old can understand, and those who don't will think "but that's just a toddler" ) you start explaining to them WHY they shouldn't be doing those things. You then introduce the idea of consequences - "if you throw that then you don't get to play with this...etc" . So, discipline and responsibility for actions develops.

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    @witch - I wouldn't be so definite on the age, our 2yr old understands why and consequences, it's more looking at their knowledge of language, their general development etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Willott View Post
    @witch - I wouldn't be so definite on the age, our 2yr old understands why and consequences, it's more looking at their knowledge of language, their general development etc
    I did say "around 3" but yes, I suppose I meant by 3 at the latest (obviously dependent on development etc)

    So many people who dont have children - and quite a few who do - think that a 2 or 3 year old is still really a baby, when in fact they stay babies for about 14 months and then they are off and running - understanding, reasoning, the lot!

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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    I'll tell you what age you start disciplining your children - around 3 years old, when they are old enough to understand what you are saying.
    For example, if I 2 year old throws or snatches something, you quietly say "no, don't do that" and take said thing away. But at 3 - yes, 3 (those of you who are parents will know how much a 3 year old can understand, and those who don't will think "but that's just a toddler" ) you start explaining to them WHY they shouldn't be doing those things. You then introduce the idea of consequences - "if you throw that then you don't get to play with this...etc" . So, discipline and responsibility for actions develops.
    I don't think it matters if the child is 3 years or 3 months. Linking cause and consequence at an early age doesn't hurt. It is consistent. So as the child develops they understand better what you are saying but the action you are performing is familiar. So rather than 'suddenly' change your tactic, the child experiences a consistent behaviour from you which they grow to understand better. A 2yo hits their sibling with a toy, you take the toy away. Where is the harm in explaining that you took it away because they are using it in the wrong way? The kid might not understand the whole 'consequence' concept but the end result is the same - child + toy = misbehaviour = child - toy?

    We use this behaviour on pets - I know my Cat doesn't understand that scratching my new suite is a bad thing but he does understand that it results in a bop on the bum from a nerf dart and links the behaviour to the nerf gun. He starts scratching, we pick up the nerf gun, he runs away.
    Last edited by AMLightfoot; 7th May 2014 at 01:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMLightfoot View Post
    I don't think it matters if the child is 3 years or 3 months. Linking cause and consequence at an early age doesn't hurt. It is consistent. So as the child develops they understand better what you are saying but the action you are performing is familiar. So rather than 'suddenly' change your tactic, the child experiences a consistent behaviour from you which they grow to understand better. A 2yo hits their sibling with a toy, you take the toy away. Where is the harm in explaining that you took it away because they are using it in the wrong way? The kid might not understand the whole 'consequence' concept but the end result is the same - child + toy = misbehaviour = child - toy?
    Yes, of course you can explain earlier - although I think 3 months is a bit of a stretch - but my point was that you need to have started adding in the reason and consequence bit by around 3. I don't think I said you should "suddenly" do anything. Maybe I should have put "by 3" and not "at 3". Sorry to be so unclear
    Last edited by witch; 7th May 2014 at 01:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    Yes, of course you can explain earlier - although I think 3 months is a bit of a stretch - but my point was that you need to have started adding in the reason and consequence bit by around 3. I don't think I said you should "suddenly" do anything. Maybe I should have put "by 3" and not "at 3". Sorry to be so unclear
    It always annoyed me as a child when my mother would discipline my sister or I and when we'd ask 'why?' the result was 'because I said so' or 'because you're not allowed'. I wish she'd explained better WHY we're not allowed. If she'd said 'you're not allowed to touch this because it is a dangerous thing and might hurt you' or 'because it's too heavy for you to lift if it falls over'. Understanding the potential consequences is as important in discipline as explaining why a behaviour is wrong. How many stories do we see of kids told they can't do something only to defy their parents, do the thing, and get hurt?

    I tried to take this approach when I was teaching. I'd converse with the disruptive pupil and try to explain why larking about around Bunsen burners was a bad idea. Whether by that stage they CARED was another matter, but due diligence and all that.

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    TBH that's all well and good - but when you have a three year old that never never stops saying "why" to every little thing you say, you do find yourself saying " because I said so" even though before you were a parent you swore up down and sideways that you would never do that

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    "Don't climb on there!"
    "Why?"
    "Because you'll get hurt."
    "Why?"
    "Because that's a fence, and it's sharp at the top."
    "Why?"
    "To hurt people that try climbing on it."
    "Why?"
    "So that they don't climb over the fence."
    "Why?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post

    So many people who dont have children - and quite a few who do - think that a 2 or 3 year old is still really a baby, when in fact they stay babies for about 14 months and then they are off and running - understanding, reasoning, the lot!
    .... until they become teenagers when the understanding, reasoning etc seems to disappear for several years!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garacesh View Post
    "Don't climb on there!"
    "Why?"
    "Because you'll get hurt."
    "Why?"
    "Because that's a fence, and it's sharp at the top."
    "Why?"
    "To hurt people that try climbing on it."
    "Why?"
    "So that they don't climb over the fence."
    "Why?"
    Ah, the brilliant WHY - I did that for a whole week as a kid. Till I had the belt on my bum cheeks, lets just say I never did it again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mthomas08 View Post
    Ah, the brilliant WHY - I did that for a whole week as a kid. Till I had the belt around my bum cheeks, lets just say I never did it again.
    Why? (6 chars)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garacesh View Post
    "Don't climb on there!"
    "Why?"
    "Because you'll get hurt."
    "Why?"
    "Because that's a fence, and it's sharp at the top."
    "Why?"
    "To hurt people that try climbing on it."
    "Why?"
    "So that they don't climb over the fence."
    "Why?"
    Valid point. I'm sure I'll be the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMLightfoot View Post
    Valid point. I'm sure I'll be the same.
    I agree with you on the point of giving a reason rather than resorting to "because I said so" as I was always frustrated by that answer from my Mom too.

    I found the way to deal with the "why" stage was answer the first few "whys" while it's still reasonable, then simply change the subject before I got to the "because I told you!" point. Now, whether that will work out well in the long run remains to be seen but I felt at the time that it'd be a bad idea to discourage her questioning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    I found the way to deal with the "why" stage was answer the first few "whys" while it's still reasonable, then simply change the subject before I got to the "because I told you!" point.
    Easiest way is to not end with a statement.

    "Don't climb on there!"
    "Why?"
    "Because you'll get hurt. It's sharp at the top to stop people climbing on it. You wouldn't want to get hurt, would you?"

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