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General Chat Thread, Dumbest thing I've read all week in General; This is without a doubt the dumbest thing I've read all week. The world's dumbest idea: Taxing solar energy I ...
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    nephilim's Avatar
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    Dumbest thing I've read all week

    This is without a doubt the dumbest thing I've read all week.

    The world's dumbest idea: Taxing solar energy

    I couldn't quite believe it, even more so when I read that Spain tried to do it as well!

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Its pretty ridiculous to do this via taxation. If the companies complain that they're using their infrastructure (the grid) then surely connection fees and the like are a more suitable route?

    If someone has a solar array on their property and they aren't feeding back into the grid, why should they get taxed for their generation?!

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    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Gosh darned trees been free-loadin' on our honest American skies for too gosh darned long! We won't stand fer it no longer! We gonna tax all that solar energy and then we can go after our REAL target and get them gosh darned trees paying their way!

    On a less stupid note: big oil's hand in all this is a little obvious, no?

  4. Thanks to sonofsanta from:

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    i saw stupider yesteday (again in the states) some farmer had been using government owned land to feed his cows but refused to pay appropriate fees. The govenment confiscated his cows and basically an armed mob decended. Turns out he acknowledges the state govenment but refuses to acknowledge the federal govenment as existing???

    Apocalypse Cow - Welfare Rancher - The Daily Show - Video Clip | Comedy Central

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    nephilim's Avatar
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    Many people in the US do not recognise the federal government as there is no basis in the US Constitution for it. As a result many hundreds of thousands refuse to pay taxes in the US, live off the grid and such like, and the federal government are strong arming state legislators into forcing people back onto the grid. One town refused to have a water supply from a large company and instead did it themselves (successfully for a decade). Federal government strongarmed the state legislators into making them get on the grid by banning wells and town water butts and such like, and making it mandatory to have a utility company supplied water supply.

    Its daft. Over here, at the least you must pay council tax on your property to pay for services like waste disposal etc which I can understand, but if you don't want a water supply from thames water or whoever your local one is, you don't have to have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    If someone has a solar array on their property and they aren't feeding back into the grid, why should they get taxed for their generation?!
    It depends how you think infrastructure costs should be shared. Maintaining a national grid is an expensive proposition. Those able to opt out of that via solar tend to be wealthy individuals who can afford the capital investment in a solar installation. That then leaves those who are least able to pay, bearing the brunt of the costs for running the grid because they can't afford to make the investment. Like it or not, that is a problem.

    Very few people fully opt out of the grid because even those with big solar installs can't afford to invest in generation _and_ storage enough to cover their peak use or sustain them through a few cloudy days.

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    ICTDirect_Dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    Many people in the US do not recognise the federal government as there is no basis in the US Constitution for it. As a result many hundreds of thousands refuse to pay taxes in the US, live off the grid and such like, and the federal government are strong arming state legislators into forcing people back onto the grid. One town refused to have a water supply from a large company and instead did it themselves (successfully for a decade). Federal government strongarmed the state legislators into making them get on the grid by banning wells and town water butts and such like, and making it mandatory to have a utility company supplied water supply.

    Its daft. Over here, at the least you must pay council tax on your property to pay for services like waste disposal etc which I can understand, but if you don't want a water supply from thames water or whoever your local one is, you don't have to have it.
    Lets not ignore the fact that the federal goverment is very much a good thing though eh?

    As for taxing the solar power. I've no problem with a tax against any profits made from selling power back into the grid, so long as they don't tax every joule you generate.

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    nephilim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    It depends how you think infrastructure costs should be shared. Maintaining a national grid is an expensive proposition. Those able to opt out of that via solar tend to be wealthy individuals who can afford the capital investment in a solar installation. That then leaves those who are least able to pay, bearing the brunt of the costs for running the grid because they can't afford to make the investment. Like it or not, that is a problem.

    Very few people fully opt out of the grid because even those with big solar installs can't afford to invest in generation _and_ storage enough to cover their peak use or sustain them through a few cloudy days.
    The average household could generate enough electric in 1 day to last 1.2 days of peak usage on a cloudy day. It doesn't require direct sunlight, it just requires light. That is the common misconception. On a heavy rainy day, you will still generate electricity, just not as much as you would with a sunny day. When it is snow covered, then you generate nothing.

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    nephilim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICTDirect_Dave View Post
    Lets not ignore the fact that the federal goverment is very much a good thing though eh?

    As for taxing the solar power. I've no problem with a tax against any profits made from selling power back into the grid, so long as they don't tax every joule you generate.
    I have no issues with the federal government of the US. They've done me no harm. However they do have some ludicrous things going on, and frankly, their legislators, senators and governors should be considered more as domestic terrorists than the people on the farm, as frankly they keep changing the goalposts that any reasonable person would not be able to keep up. The land owner as mentioned above was working on the basis that the farm land changes as the river changed near his property. When it went south he lost land, when it went north he gained land. Federal government OK'd this, however they changed it saying when it went south he lost land, when it went north, he didn't gain the land back, so he lost out regardless. This is his gripe (I've been reading a lot about it).

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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    The average household could generate enough electric in 1 day to last 1.2 days of peak usage on a cloudy day. It doesn't require direct sunlight, it just requires light. That is the common misconception. On a heavy rainy day, you will still generate electricity, just not as much as you would with a sunny day. When it is snow covered, then you generate nothing.
    It depends on your investment, i.e. how many panels you can buy, of what type and how well placed they are. There is also the question of servicing the peak demand. You may be able to capture the energy on average over the day, but that doesn't mean you can service a peak power load of (say) a cooker, water heater and kettle at any time. And while PV panels might have come down in price, good deep discharge batteries are still very expensive. Generating power is a different kettle of fish to effectively storing it.

  12. 2 Thanks to pcstru:

    Greenbeast (23rd April 2014), nephilim (23rd April 2014)

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    Many people in the US do not recognise the federal government as there is no basis in the US Constitution for it.

    The first bit there is correct, there are a bunch of people who don't recognise the federal government. The second bit is incorrect. Article One specifies the legislative branch of the government of the Unites States, Congress. Article Two specifies the executive branch, aka. the Presidency. Article Three specifies the judicial branch of government. Article Four specifies the relationships between the states and the federal government. Article Six then highlights that the Constitution itself it the highest law in the land, thereby codifying the existence of the federal government...

    So, the Federal government is specifically outlined in the Constitution. In fact, the Constitution exists specifically for that purpose.

  14. Thanks to localzuk from:

    visioN (23rd April 2014)

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    VeryPC_Colin_M's Avatar
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    They will be taxing cow farts next.

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    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    Its daft. Over here, at the least you must pay council tax on your property to pay for services like waste disposal etc which I can understand, but if you don't want a water supply from thames water or whoever your local one is, you don't have to have it.
    Try having that argument with nPower, who after 13years still haven't turned off my gas supply and insist on trying to charge me the standing charges - idiots!

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    nephilim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    Try having that argument with nPower, who after 13years still haven't turned off my gas supply and insist on trying to charge me the standing charges - idiots!
    Speak to OfGEM. We had a similar issue in my old house, a letter to OfGEM and NPower and it was sorted

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    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    Speak to OfGEM. We had a similar issue in my old house, a letter to OfGEM and NPower and it was sorted
    Will do. They've been given till the 11th May to respond to my lastest complaint and to refund £400 I had agreed to pay on the basis that they leave me alone. They didn't so I want my money back. Don't expect to hear anything further from them apart from another auto-generated statement "to the owner/occupier". At which point it's off to OfGEM!

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