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General Chat Thread, Cloning.. What are your thoughts? in General; This dosen't excite me as much! I don't want more people in the world, I want robots so basically just ...
  1. #61

    abillybob's Avatar
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    This dosen't excite me as much! I don't want more people in the world, I want robots so basically just computers walking around. I'd much rather talk to a Asimo then a Person.

  2. #62

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    What is we did clone Einstein, and he disagrees with it saying he has had his time on the Earth and commits suicide or something or drives him insane?

  3. #63
    Ghostgame's Avatar
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    A bit of lore from EVE Online about cloning.

    https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Cloning

    In EVE cloning is the way the game explains respawns.

  4. #64

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by visioN View Post
    What is we did clone Einstein, and he disagrees with it saying he has had his time on the Earth and commits suicide or something or drives him insane?
    He won't have "had his time on Earth", a clone is a totally separate being to the original, it doesn't share any memories or experiences, just DNA. The easiest way to visualize how a clone would work is to look at identical twins. They may look the same and share much of the same DNA (of course, a clone would share 100% of it's DNA), but they are still entirely separate people.

    Whether he would be driven insane by the knowledge that he is a clone is another matter...

  5. #65

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    Also just to point out a clone in the sense that we are dicuusing it here would be a genetically identical copy of a person but would be grown from an embryo and develop in the same way as any other person - We're not talking about suddenly creating a 40 year old being (which by definition would be impossible)

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    He won't have "had his time on Earth", a clone is a totally separate being to the original, it doesn't share any memories or experiences, just DNA. The easiest way to visualize how a clone would work is to look at identical twins. They may look the same and share much of the same DNA (of course, a clone would share 100% of it's DNA), but they are still entirely separate people.

    Whether he would be driven insane by the knowledge that he is a clone is another matter...
    I know they won't have the same memories or experiences.

    But if I found out that I was created due to being cloned from a dead corpse because that corpse was a great mind and want me to replicate his ground breaking work... I'd be a little... freaked out to say the least! You don't know how he will take it! It is a fair point to say he might think he has had his time on Earth as his exact DNA has already lived - basically trying to cheat god and be born again

  7. #67

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by visioN View Post
    It is a fair point to say he might think he has had his time on Earth as his exact DNA has already lived - basically trying to cheat god and be born again
    I see your point, but as we're talking about Einstein, I don't imagine "cheating God" would be a worry of his... then again, maybe the cloned Einstein would find religion, who knows!

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    I see your point, but as we're talking about Einstein, I don't imagine "cheating God" would be a worry of his... then again, maybe the cloned Einstein would find religion, who knows!
    Yeah the original Einstein might not have worried about it. But actually being a clone might force different issues on him - as experiences you live through shape the person you are, clone or not.

  9. #69
    VeryPC_Colin_M's Avatar
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    OK back to the dog cloning...

    If you watched the program you may well have spotted me in there for about 3 seconds with my 2 dogs. When this competition was launched I decided to enter for a laugh; what would the harm be - a new dog and a free round trip to Korea? I found the whole concept pretty Sci-fi and ground breaking and would love to have one of my dogs go down in history as the 1st UK cloned dog - 5 minutes of fame and all that. So we made our video and sent it off to the Koreans (which they chopped in half when putting on youtube). Within a few days we were contacted by the production company and agreed to meet with them. They were really nice people and were producing the program for Channel 4, and they took us through the ins and outs of the procedure, and quizzed us on why we would want one of our dogs cloned, and they liked our reasons. We chose Max; I got him from a rescue home about 6 years ago, and always wondered how he'd have been were he raised by us from birth. We don't know his back history we just know that he's awesome, but has a bit of fight in him on occasion if he feels threatened by other dogs. He's a staffy cross with a Beagle is our best guess and I've never seen a dog that looked like him - he really is a stunner and is so gentle with people; he absolutely melted the production team's heart. He is also 1 of the only dogs to get on with our other dog, Poppy, a cocker spaniel. He looks after her like she's his bride, and she adores him, so we thought a clone of Max would be perfect for her too. When I got him, I had him neutered so unable to mate him, the cloning thing sounded like the next best thing. Mrs Colin has always joked that she'd have our dogs stuffed when they die, and cloning sounded more fun..

    What we weren't prepared for was the fact they wanted to proceed immediately; we can't cope with another dog at this point in our lives, what with the wedding, and then baby planning, and we decided that whilst a clone of Max would indeed look like Max, there would be very little chance of the clone being Max. You can't clone a dog's personality, we're not stupid, we know this. It would have been selfish of us to proceed is what we felt as we rescued him from a shelter and when he one day leaves us for the big dog bed in the sky, we would choose rescuing a dog over cloning our own dog all day every day. We never gave the ethics of cloning a second thought.

    However... we were short listed and we backed out; people form extremely close emotional bonds to their pets and having heard some of the other stories of entrants we knew there were people that sounded like they almost needed this. I started out thinking "how cool, I can make Max famous and have another Max, for free!" But ended up feeling like we'd rather rescue than clone, and take our memories of Max with him when he's gone. And probably have him stuffed...

    Since the beginning of the process we've turned down TV offers from various countries - it appears this dog cloning thing is a hot topic.

    We felt like they chose the wrong winner for certain, but that British dog owners with lots of money will no doubt begin cloning their pets. Just to reiterate I never had a problem with this ethically (it's just a dog, where in the Bible does it state "thou shalt not clone thy pet?"), it was just morally wrong for us to continue. Now if someone offered to clone Mrs Colin for free......

  10. 3 Thanks to VeryPC_Colin_M:

    abillybob (11th April 2014), korifugi (11th April 2014), LosOjos (11th April 2014)

  11. #70
    Neil-Millgate's Avatar
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    I think that once we reach the point of being able to record and store a persons conciousness/memories then human cloning will happen on a much larger scale. You contract a terminal illness, no worries heres a new body for you. Oh, you have been in a serious accident with significant damage, no worries heres a new body.

    Effectively you can live forever....whether you want to, can afford to or whether there is enough space on the planet however............

    Could be an excellent way of exploring deep space?

    Also the very seedy aspect of unscrupulous people cloning for pleasure famous people or people that you know and can get some dna from.....


    I think that we can all agree that it human cloning will happen, if not already, and we need to have the discussion on a broader level so that we are ready to deal with it.

  12. 2 Thanks to Neil-Millgate:

    LosOjos (11th April 2014), VeryPC_Colin_M (11th April 2014)

  13. #71

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    On a loosely related note: BBC News - Doctors implant lab-grown vagina

    So already scientists and surgeons are making use of the ability to grow cells (is this technically a form of cloning?) to vastly improve the quality of life for people suffering from various difficult ailments. They've actually manage to create tissue that was never there in the first place that is completely compatible with the host... amazing!

  14. #72

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil-Millgate View Post
    I think that once we reach the point of being able to record and store a persons conciousness/memories then human cloning will happen on a much larger scale. You contract a terminal illness, no worries heres a new body for you. Oh, you have been in a serious accident with significant damage, no worries heres a new body.
    Indeed. I would love that technology to exist. My quality of life would massively improve if they could clone my body, fixing my various ailments, and then transfer my mind to it... Swapping organs instead would help a bit, but there'd be so much to swap, it'd be like a complete overhaul.

    That said, there comes a question of duplication. If it is possible to transfer a mind, surely you then end up with the ability to duplicate it? That would lead to a serious problem, if someone decided to build an army of themself etc...

  15. #73

    ICTDirect_Dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil-Millgate View Post
    I think that once we reach the point of being able to record and store a persons conciousness/memories then human cloning will happen on a much larger scale. You contract a terminal illness, no worries heres a new body for you. Oh, you have been in a serious accident with significant damage, no worries heres a new body.

    Effectively you can live forever....whether you want to, can afford to or whether there is enough space on the planet however............

    Could be an excellent way of exploring deep space?

    Also the very seedy aspect of unscrupulous people cloning for pleasure famous people or people that you know and can get some dna from.....


    I think that we can all agree that it human cloning will happen, if not already, and we need to have the discussion on a broader level so that we are ready to deal with it.
    We're getting towards Iain M Banks' Culture novels here. A society I'd rather like to experience. Have a read of surface Detail (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Surface-Deta.../dp/1841498955) It deals with reincarnation and transference of consciousness and is a brilliant read

  16. Thanks to ICTDirect_Dave from:

    Neil-Millgate (11th April 2014)

  17. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    Haha you can bet your life in a few years time this kind of stuff will become a dirty toy!!!

    On other hands it won't be a live forever concept like milgate suggested as it won't be you and your brain inside another body... unless that's what you mean? If they clone you and have all you thoughts etc... yes it would be the exact same person yet it wouldn't be you looking through the other body's eyes if you understand what I'm saying!
    Last edited by abillybob; 11th April 2014 at 11:14 AM.

  18. #75

    nephilim's Avatar
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    reminds me of this...scary to think the film was set in 2015! The 6th Day - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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