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General Chat Thread, Cloning.. What are your thoughts? in General; Originally Posted by LosOjos I wish all religious folk were as rational! OK, next question (I don't mean to pick ...
  1. #46
    Ghostgame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    I wish all religious folk were as rational!

    OK, next question (I don't mean to pick on you!): if, through cloning, a cure for all cancer was found and then you or a loved one became ill, would you accept the treatment or deny it on religious grounds, knowing the alternative was death?
    Its a situation I hope never to be in as it would test my faith terribly.
    This answer I give, is hopefully what I would do.
    I would refuse treatment, as death is not something a Christian should fear.
    This would be discussed with loved ones first and I would explain why I would refuse the treatment for myself.
    If a loved one was sick, it would be discussed with them and whatever choice they make would be the choice they make.

  2. #47

    nephilim's Avatar
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    Rather than cloning whole humans, I'd rather they used DNA and samples to clone organs, that way the organ waiting list can go down rapidly.

  3. #48
    Ghostgame's Avatar
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    @SYNACK I'm happy to continue with this over PM but not on this thread.
    We are starting to deviate from what this thread is about.

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    What's the point making a genetic clone if you can't copy/restore memories /personality seems stupid to me

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostgame View Post
    I hope this does not derail the thread but as a Christian I find the idea of cloning unacceptable.
    Why?
    Because according to the Bible (specifically Genesis), God designed us to procreate via a man and a woman.
    Anything that interferes or tries to replace that God given design (so therefore must be perfect) is asking for trouble.
    Please note, this is MY view.
    Not to nitpick, but surely that isn't your view as such but is the view of a book, which you've decided to follow?

    My moral code is a pretty simple mix of logic and utilitarianism. I start with a question of "will it hurt someone?" and move into "will hurting that someone provide a greater amount of relief from pain to others?"

    So, in the case of cloning, it is an overall "it's fine", and then each situation of its use is looked at again.

    Cloning of people, for something like getting back someone who has significant potential (Einstein), is fine.

    Cloning of people to harvest a replacement organ, fails the first question but potentially could help a huge number of people. However, we also need to take into account resources and population, so it's got the possibility of being good or bad.

    I prefer to make these decisions myself rather than follow the rules written by others. Laws often follow a pattern similar to mine anyway now.

  6. #51

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bananas View Post
    What's the point making a genetic clone if you can't copy/restore memories /personality seems stupid to me
    Then I'd suggest you read up on it a bit more:
    Why Clone?
    The Benefits of Human Cloning

    (not saying I necessarily agree with everything proposed in either of those two links, but they'll give you an idea of the potential benefits of cloning)

  7. #52
    Ghostgame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Not to nitpick, but surely that isn't your view as such but is the view of a book, which you've decided to follow?
    Just because the Bible is where my views come from, does not make it any less my view.
    Also I don't follow a book, I follow the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Sorry if that seems a bit blunt.

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    matt40k's Avatar
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    Personally organ cloning yes, whole human clone no - shall I raise the question of a clone having a spirit\soul ?

    PS: @SYNACK @localzuk I'll buy a beer to first person who gets @Ghostgame to change his mind about religion and Jesus Christ. I think you'll have a better chance winning the lottery 10 times over

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    DaveP's Avatar
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    Link: Canadian dentist still intends to clone John Lennon, raise him as his son | Consequence of Sound

    Last summer, news surfaced of a mad Canadian dentist named Michael Zuk, who successfully purchased John Lennonís rotten molar with plans to extract the DNA and use it to clone the Beatle legend. Fast forward 18 months and Michael Zuk is still at it. In an interview with UKís Channel 4, he explained that he still intends to clone Lennon once the technology is far enough advanced. Not only that, but he already has its (?) life mapped out...

  10. #55
    CAM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostgame View Post
    Just because the Bible is where my views come from, does not make it any less my view.
    Also I don't follow a book, I follow the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Sorry if that seems a bit blunt.
    As an agnostic (or Christian in crisis could be a way to describe it) I see this from a mixed viewpoint. The full cloning of a human being I'd see as wrong and of questionable morals (it also wouldn't work like you see in EVE as you are ultimately a separate lifeform if you were cloned), but the partial cloning for cells of medicinal purposes I'd fully support. If God doesn't exist, a means is right in front of you for curing a terminal disease and staving off death a bit further. If he does exist, then we have been gifted a means of curing disease for a reason and you've been given the opportunity to accept the cure as a way of fulfilling some cause later in life.

    Ultimately full cloning would answer a number of questions about spirit and soul, it'd be interesting if someone was fully cloned and found themselves existing in two places at once, confirming the existence of a person "as one" with a soul even if they are copied into another body (possibly after death). Further theories may be raised if the copy is a result of quantum mechanics as each atom gets copied and reflects the actions of the original if teleportation or some other gadgetry is used instead of biological processes. But equally, if the clone and the original cannot perceive each other, this would answer the question that post-mortem cloning wouldn't work and that we are self-contained entities with the existence of a soul questioned. Either way this would be a very tricky period for the human race and this is starting to sound like a post from /r/showerthoughts...

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    Sdrawkcab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fairm010 View Post
    No. That is my point. There may be disagreements with that view but to me it's valid.
    Then your view is borne out of ignorance and fear rather than any understanding of the actual subject.

    Why start a thread and share your views if you don't actually want people to question them? Lots of people on here seem to think that by saying "This is my opinion, you don't have to agree with it" people are magically prevented from arguing with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fairm010 View Post
    Ha. " However it would put a crimp in the retail sales of a 'your favourite actress or actor' clones for 'personal use'." The things that just flew through my mind! :P
    I'm going to clone Emma Watson..... no particular reason!

  13. 2 Thanks to abillybob:

    fairm010 (11th April 2014), SYNACK (11th April 2014)

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    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    I'm going to clone Emma Watson.....
    You might not get who you expect!

    NSFW: This YouTube clip shows brief FAKE nudity

    Link: Emma Watson Unmasks

    [No audio]
    Last edited by DaveP; 11th April 2014 at 08:49 AM. Reason: Correct spelling mistake and clarify context.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveP View Post
    You might not get who you expect!

    NSFW: This YouTube clip shows brief FAKE nudity

    Link: Emma Watson Unmasks

    [No audio]
    Why have you got to ruin everything for me @DaveP. I will never look at her the same again.

    Maybe cloning could also be used in the military imagine that unlimited soldiers? Could you clone the dead like could we bring back Hitler and have a load of Hitlers fighting on the front line for england I think we will have humanoid robots working for us anyway before we even start thinking about human cloning! It won't be in our lifetime.

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    If we can clone a sheep, one day we'll be able to clone a human being, if we can't already.

    When all's said and done about morality, gods, beliefs, rights, wrongs, ethics and all, we can all be assured of one thing.

    Someone, somewhere, some day will do it, if it hasn't been done already. My personal feelings are that it has been done, already, we just don't know about it.

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