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General Chat Thread, The spring Budget in General; Originally Posted by tmcd35 It is what it is. You may as well charge 5% to everyone who refers to ...
  1. #46

    Gatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    It is what it is. You may as well charge 5% to everyone who refers to a "shovel" as a "spade" then! I see nothing wrong with describing a tax on bedrooms as a "bedroom tax" even if it's being officall spun as the "spare room subsidy"

    Urgh - No its not! Tax is where someone (usually a Government) takes off a percentage of money that you have earned..
    You don't "earn" a bedroom do you??

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  3. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatt View Post
    Urgh - No its not! Tax is where someone (usually a Government) takes off a percentage of money that you have earned..
    You don't "earn" a bedroom do you??
    Erm, being asked to pay 15 per week (or about that) for each unused bedroom = real money being taken out of real peoples wallets = tax. Where did you think the money paying this "subsidy" was coming from other than out of peoples pockets?

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    Heard of the "Window Tax"? Value Added Tax?

    1.1Pay tax on (something, especially a vehicle): the Land Rover slowly disintegrates and no one has bothered to tax it

  5. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    Erm, being asked to pay 15 per week (or about that) for each unused bedroom = real money being taken out of real peoples wallets = tax. Where did you think the money paying this "subsidy" was coming from other than out of peoples pockets?
    Erm - the original housing benefit?
    That is still not a tax - its a reduction in your benefit - same way as you get reduction in other benefits depending on your circumstances..

    It's also technically not a subsidy - Its legal name under the legislation is "Under-occupancy penalty". If you live in a house taht has more bedrooms than you need then this penalty is deducted from your benefit.

    Penalties != Tax (It may feel like it is - but its not)

  6. #50
    zag
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    You cant win the Spare room subsidy/Bedroom tax naming debate.

    Labour supporters inherently believe in spending more on welfare.
    Conservative supports inherently believe in spending less.

    In reality is simply a reduction in the amount of money people receive in housing benefits. You can call it what you want

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  8. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatt View Post
    Erm - the original housing benefit?
    That is still not a tax - its a reduction in your benefit - same way as you get reduction in other benefits depending on your circumstances..

    It's also technically not a subsidy - Its legal name under the legislation is "Under-occupancy penalty". If you live in a house taht has more bedrooms than you need then this penalty is deducted from your benefit.

    Penalties != Tax (It may feel like it is - but its not)
    So where does the money come from to pay for this reduction in benefit this penalty? And worse still, who does it effect? It's a hidden tax on the poorest and most needy in our society - which is just plan wrong!

    The effect of the penalty is to unjustly tax those that really cannot afford it - to claim anything else (like calling it a "spare room subsidy") is being disingenuous.

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    The sad thing about the whole bedroom subsidy is it is hitting the most frail and infirm in our society. The fact is there are very few one bedroom homes in which to move these people. What do they expect folk to do? Wave a magic wand and invent a one bedroom home??

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    Tax dog owners so there's money clean up Dog Poo!

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    I'd like to see the return of a properly progressive tax system, where the rate rises (say 5% at each 100k pa) to a max of (say) 95% - all the bankers and overpaid CEOs can keep giving each other bonuses and multi zillion pay awards, but we all get the benefits in more money for the NHS, social care - who knows even a decent pay rise for IT staff!

  13. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpuffMonkey View Post
    I'd like to see the return of a properly progressive tax system, where the rate rises (say 5% at each 100k pa) to a max of (say) 95% - all the bankers and overpaid CEOs can keep giving each other bonuses and multi zillion pay awards, but we all get the benefits in more money for the NHS, social care - who knows even a decent pay rise for IT staff!
    That's an interesting one. For all my socialist and liberal views, it's actually something I firmly disagree with because I see it as punshing someone for being successful and is really a means of covering up holes and inequalities elsewhere.

    I'd like to see a single tax rate paid by all with no personal allowance. Get rid of VAT and other duties as much as is allowable under EU law. And set the net National Minimum Wage at 10% above the Living Wage - then peg it to inflation/deflation.


    As for this year, I think the budget was a little lack luster for me, nothing to write home about. Work as bumbped me up 1 spinal point, we have a 1% pay increase on top of that, and the personal allowance is upto 10,000 from the next pay packet. All in all, I'm better off. So nothing to complain about either.

  14. #56
    zag
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpuffMonkey View Post
    I'd like to see the return of a properly progressive tax system, where the rate rises (say 5% at each 100k pa) to a max of (say) 95% - all the bankers and overpaid CEOs can keep giving each other bonuses and multi zillion pay awards, but we all get the benefits in more money for the NHS, social care - who knows even a decent pay rise for IT staff!
    So back to how labour used to do it in the 70's? I believe the top rate was 83% back in those days. A socialists dream indeed!

    Unfortunately the problem was the higher you make taxes the more people avoid them, there comes a point where you get more total revenue by actually lowering those taxes. I believe that point is around 40-50%

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    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    So back to how labour used to do it in the 70's? I believe the top rate was 83% back in those days. A socialists dream indeed!

    Unfortunately the problem was the higher you make taxes the more people avoid them, there comes a point where you get more total revenue by actually lowering those taxes. I believe that point is around 40-50%
    So the right wingers would have us believe! If you think high earners don't try to avoid tax at any point, you're living in a dreamworld.

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    I gave the BBC calculator a quick run this morning. I am 0.00 better off.

    Could have been worse, I'll only have to sell one child into white slavery this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    Work as bumbped me up 1 spinal point, we have a 1% pay increase on top of that,
    er I dont think you do have that 1%, isn't this what the nurses were shouting about? because so many are on a progression pay increase they are being denied the additional 1%

    see Anger As Thousands Of Nurses Denied 1% Rise
    Last edited by JJonas; 20th March 2014 at 09:40 AM.

  18. #60
    zag
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpuffMonkey View Post
    So the right wingers would have us believe! If you think high earners don't try to avoid tax at any point, you're living in a dreamworld.
    I didn't say high earners don't try to avoid tax I said you get the the best total revenue when the rate is at 40-50%.

    Governments know this hence why even labour don't dare go higher.

    France actually now has one of the higherest tax rates in the world of 75%, take a look at how their economy is doing....

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