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General Chat Thread, Mac starting to make a real dent in General; After reading this today Windows hits the skids, Mac OS X on the rise Im not surprised all my close ...
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    Quackers's Avatar
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    Mac starting to make a real dent

    After reading this today

    Windows hits the skids, Mac OS X on the rise

    Im not surprised all my close friends and my self have all dumped Windows for Mac OS for personal machines in the last 2 years. I'm seeing more and more people using Mac than ever before.

    Will be interesting to see if it gets to 10% and if it does how quickly. What do others make of it?

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    Michael's Avatar
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    To be honest, I don't think Apple is too much to worry about from a desktop/notebook point of view. If you look at it from a Smartphone point of view, Android is 1st with Apple 2nd and Microsoft is no where to be seen. With the rise in popularity of portable devices, Microsoft really need to catch up.

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    Apple will continue to grow on the domestic and mobile market. However, they never will be a big player in the world of the workplace. That is except for a few "creative" uses.
    Like it or not, nothing integrates like Microsoft, nothing is as controllable as Microsoft.
    Kids need MS PC experience not niche kit experience no matter how good it might be. The business world calls the tune and future employees must dance to it.
    That said, I wrote this on a Linux PC.

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    Mac starting to make a real dent

    Quote Originally Posted by Netsplit View Post
    Like it or not, nothing integrates like Microsoft, nothing is as controllable as Microsoft.
    Well, nothing integrates with Microsoft like Microsoft anyway that's for sure. Mac OS is actually very configurable and controllable with the right tools though (Casper Suite, Absolute Manage, Profile Manager + ARD, etc) in the hands of a tech as knowledgeable about Macs as the average Windows tech is about Windows and SCCM, GPP, etc.. In the hands of an inexperienced tech or without the right systems, of course it won't be.

    Kids need MS PC experience not niche kit experience no matter how good it might be. The business world calls the tune and future employees must dance to it.
    I don't think this is going to be the reality for the average 13 year old student of 2014. Perhaps their older siblings, but in 5 years time BYOD is likely to have a strong presence in many businesses and may be the expectation in most SMBs. BYOD has already made significant in-roads into business and education and this trend is very likely to continue as employees insist on using tools they are familiar and productive with, and businesses look to reduce costs and provide a work environment geared for Gen Y and beyond.

    The real reality is that corporate IT had better be prepared to deal with the BYOD movement and have systems that can cope with a myriad of user devices be they Windows, Mac, Linux. Chromebooks, etc.. Harder for IT? No doubt. Will the CEO care - hardly. The CEO will see it as a competitive advantage for recruiting, cost savings, and productivity.

    That said, I wrote this on a Linux PC.
    My point exactly.

  5. Thanks to seawolf from:

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    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    BYOD has already made significant in-roads into business and education
    It only extends within sales and management. They love shiny things.
    My last position was with the forth largest outsourcer in Europe and neither they, the commercial clients or the gov. departments they served used BYOD to any noticeable level. It wasn't growing either. Also there wasn't a single owned Apple asset in the CMDB that I ever came across, not one.

    Try writing a spreadsheet or presentation on a phablet.

    Say the word Apple in a tier one data centre and you'll be looking for a new job. It's not prejudice, the practicalities and costs mean there is no case to make. VMware is developing the hypervisor to take over the redundant O/S role completely. There won't be the pointless extra layer in every VM soon.

    Now then, on the desktop, the trend is actually to make a personal computer utterly obsolete. The future is everything to be Cloud and SaaS. When this work is complete the world will have gone full circle and back to dumb terminals. Web terminals this time rather than shell ones.
    You'll still need a big screen and keyboard for business though.

    In short, the future is no more PC's and no more O/S full stop.

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    Mac starting to make a real dent

    Quote Originally Posted by Netsplit View Post
    Say the word Apple in a tier one data centre and you'll be looking for a new job. It's not prejudice, the practicalities and costs mean there is no case to make.
    That's interesting since if you are a Google employee you now have to make your case to have something OTHER than a Mac on your desk. Google does own a datacentre or two around the place and pretty much all of their thousands of employees use Macs. Google currently manages over 40,000 Macs. Looks like mentioning the word "Apple" at a tier 1 datacentre might just get you a job at Google...

    http://bgr.com/2013/11/28/mac-chrome...gle-employees/

    VMware is developing the hypervisor to take over the redundant O/S role completely. There won't be the pointless extra layer in every VM soon.
    I'm not sure what this has to do with BYOD or the increase in non-windows OS on the desktop, but VMWare have also made the vSphere web UI in vSphere 5.5 fully Mac compatible and in order to access all of the features in vSphere 5.5 you have to use the web UI, as they aren't available in the Windows client. That's quite a change from the past.

    Now then, on the desktop, the trend is actually to make a personal computer utterly obsolete. The future is everything to be Cloud and SaaS. When this work is complete the world will have gone full circle and back to dumb terminals. Web terminals this time rather than shell ones.
    You'll still need a big screen and keyboard for business though.

    In short, the future is no more PC's and no more O/S full stop.
    Sure, the very large businesses will likely go that way, but the numerous SMEs of the western world employee far more workers in the economy than the large companies. SMEs are not going to go all Cloud and SaaS UNLESS widespread Gigabit internet becomes a reality. Again, easy for the large companies to achieve, (they can afford to have it built) not so the company that has 50 employees and can't afford 200k for the fibre build and a 10k/month Fibre bill.

    I just don't see the evidence for widespread use of thin client technology yet. Again, in verybig businesses and government it may, but not your average SME. Unless every SME gets swallowed whole by big business and all we have are a bunch of Buy-N-Large oligopolies or monopolies, that's not going to happen. These systems take big iron and networking in the backend as well as a level of expertise many SMEs don't have. I have worked with many of them in the past as my clients and can attest to that. Even many larger companies have IT expertise and practices that aren't anywhere near what you would expect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    VMware have also made the vSphere web UI in vSphere 5.5 fully Mac compatible and in order to access all of the features in vSphere 5.5 you have to use the web UI, as they aren't available in the Windows client. That's quite a change from the past.
    VMware's decision to make a Flash-based web client was a bit stupid, don't you think? From what I have read, it's not well liked.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    VMware's decision to make a Flash-based web client was a bit stupid, don't you think? From what I have read, it's not well liked.

    It's a bit disappointing they used Flash, but at least it's been well-written and not slapped together like so many FLEX or Flash-based web apps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    To be honest, I don't think Apple is too much to worry about from a desktop/notebook point of view. If you look at it from a Smartphone point of view, Android is 1st with Apple 2nd and Microsoft is no where to be seen. With the rise in popularity of portable devices, Microsoft really need to catch up.
    This is my thinking, plus as for desktop sales W7 works on older equipment unlike vista which asked for more power. Most users buy tablets because they want internet access.

    Plus there is the bull feedback some users are being told when they are clueless with IT. I have met several people who have been told they should buy mac because they are the best thing for internet access and last ten plus years. Misleading information is also part of the reason people are buying macs instead of buying something that does the job they want.

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    Very good post.

    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    Well, nothing integrates with Microsoft like Microsoft anyway that's for sure. Mac OS is actually very configurable and controllable with the right tools though (Casper Suite, Absolute Manage, Profile Manager + ARD, etc) in the hands of a tech as knowledgeable about Macs as the average Windows tech is about Windows and SCCM, GPP, etc.. In the hands of an inexperienced tech or without the right systems, of course it won't be.



    I don't think this is going to be the reality for the average 13 year old student of 2014. Perhaps their older siblings, but in 5 years time BYOD is likely to have a strong presence in many businesses and may be the expectation in most SMBs. BYOD has already made significant in-roads into business and education and this trend is very likely to continue as employees insist on using tools they are familiar and productive with, and businesses look to reduce costs and provide a work environment geared for Gen Y and beyond.

    The real reality is that corporate IT had better be prepared to deal with the BYOD movement and have systems that can cope with a myriad of user devices be they Windows, Mac, Linux. Chromebooks, etc.. Harder for IT? No doubt. Will the CEO care - hardly. The CEO will see it as a competitive advantage for recruiting, cost savings, and productivity.



    My point exactly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    if you are a Google employee you now have to make your case to have something OTHER than a Mac on your desk. Google does own a datacentre or two around the place and pretty much all of their thousands of employees use Macs.

    Sure, the very large businesses will likely go that way, but the numerous SMEs of the western world employee far more workers in the economy than the large companies. SMEs are not going to go all Cloud I just don't see the evidence for widespread use of thin client technology yet.

    Hmm it seems you aren't clear on the difference between a datacentre and the desk or what my term "creative type" niche means. I'm clearly wasting my time.

    Actually big business defines the PC. SME's have no say and take what they're given. The PC market is in freefall and isn't going to stop. BYOD is used a web client just like PC's are now.

    Not going cloud? Again wrong, in the UK many organisations are already all cloud. I'm in talks with a typical independent school at the moment. They are Office 365 and Google Apps. No internal infrastructure except to deliver specialist didactic software. This is not unique I can assure you.

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    Mac starting to make a real dent

    Quote Originally Posted by Netsplit View Post
    Hmm it seems you aren't clear on the difference between a datacentre and the desk or what my term "creative type" niche means. I'm clearly wasting my time.
    Yes, you are wasting your time if the argument was meant to be using Mac servers in a large datacentre. I think I've been pretty clear that you don't need a Mac on the backend to manage Macs and iPads. You can use Casper Suite, Absolute Manage, Meraki, SCCM with Parellels agent/plugin, etc. that can all run on Linux or Windows VMs.

    Actually big business defines the PC. SME's have no say and take what they're given.
    The consumer is doing a pretty good job of defining the "PC", not big business or we would have never seen the existence of Metro, Windows 8, or the Surface in the first place.

    The PC market is in freefall and isn't going to stop. BYOD is used a web client just like PC's are now.
    You seem to be agreeing with my point at least in a way. BYOD isn't just a web client or all about the cloud though.

    Not going cloud? Again wrong, in the UK many organisations are already all cloud. I'm in talks with a typical independent school at the moment. They are Office 365 and Google Apps. No internal infrastructure except to deliver specialist didactic software. This is not unique I can assure you.
    Great, I hope that goes well for them. I wonder how well they've thought that out though considering all contingencies. Schools are using hosted email? Yes, of course this is where it makes sense along with hosting of publicly accessible web severs off-site. We do this too. Will their be a mass migration for businesses and schools to host their core infrastructure off-site (AD, File Servers, databases, and all backups) all in the cloud? No, not in THIS decade anyway.
    Last edited by seawolf; 17th March 2014 at 07:22 AM.

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    All this really says is that the consumer market is becoming more web based and platform agnostic - something I think we already knew. It's unsuprising that in such an environment Mac's would do a little better than they had been since there isn't the paltform lock-ins that caused those buyers to purchase Windows in the past.

    The more everything becomes cloud and web based the more people will run all sorts of crazy alternate OS's on any number of disperate devices because quiet frankly all that's really needed is a web browser.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    That's interesting since if you are a Google employee you now have to make your case to have something OTHER than a Mac on your desk. Google does own a datacentre or two around the place and pretty much all of their thousands of employees use Macs. Google currently manages over 40,000 Macs. Looks like mentioning the word "Apple" at a tier 1 datacentre might just get you a job at Google...

    Mac vs Chromebook: Google employees instructed to use OS X computers | BGR
    It's something to remember though that even though Google are one of Apple's biggest customers they are quite frankly getting sick of them. Google have had to create brand new programmes from scratch to make the Apple kit work for them with no help from Apple at all, they complained and said Apple support never support us!
    They stated that they use Apple Mac's as the hardware makes their company look more professional and is a perk to a Google employee to have a new Mac. This was a huge news story at one point have you forgotten about all the problems Google have had with Apple?

    Here's a link: How Google manages over 40,000 Macs…without much help from Apple | 9to5Mac
    Last edited by abillybob; 17th March 2014 at 08:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbillbridgnorth View Post
    They stated that they use Apple Mac's as the hardware makes their company look more professional and is a perk to a Google employee to have a new Mac. This was a huge news story at one point have you forgotten about all the problems Google have had with Apple?

    Here's a link: How Google manages over 40,000 Macs…without much help from Apple | 9to5Mac

    They run Macs so they can run Mac OS X because they found Windows to be not secure enough after they had a breach. Not because it makes them look more professional. We use Googles Munki for pushing software to Macs its a great light weight tool.

    Its only in the last 10 years that Microsofts own tools have been up to scratch in managing Windows Clients properly. Thats why RM Connect was popular with schools in the 90's because MS's own tools were absolute junk. Even Windows 2000 did not have a fraction of the Group Policies available today.

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