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General Chat Thread, Is this right? in General; There's a black NUT poster in our staffroom that says "FAIR PAY FOR TEACHERS". Are teachers getting a pay cut ...
  1. #61

    webman's Avatar
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    Re: Is this right?

    There's a black NUT poster in our staffroom that says "FAIR PAY FOR TEACHERS".

    Are teachers getting a pay cut then?

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    Re: Is this right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Halfmad
    Teachers aren't overpaid, I heard it on the radio that they're suffering from "underfunded salaries".

    Laughed when I heard it too :-P
    I don't agree with that sweeping generalisation.... "good teaching staff" deserve better pay however it seems to me that the there are so many shall we say “not so good” teachers floating around in the system that promotion for a “good teacher” is the only root to a better salary and this takes one more "good teacher" out of the system.

    In business you have to reward success……becuase if you reward failure your business will also fail!

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    Re: Is this right?

    Quote Originally Posted by webman
    There's a black NUT poster in our staffroom that says "FAIR PAY FOR TEACHERS".

    Are teachers getting a pay cut then?
    Yeah, didnt you know that teachers jobs are at risk becuase of BSF and single status. Oh no, wait.............. thats us. My mistake.

  4. #64

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    Re: Is this right?

    Quote Originally Posted by djm968
    Quote Originally Posted by Halfmad
    Teachers aren't overpaid, I heard it on the radio that they're suffering from "underfunded salaries".

    Laughed when I heard it too :-P
    I don't agree with that sweeping generalisation.... "good teaching staff" deserve better pay however it seems to me that the there are so many shall we say “not so good” teachers floating around in the system that promotion for a “good teacher” is the only root to a better salary and this takes one more "good teacher" out of the system.

    In business you have to reward success……becuase if you reward failure your business will also fail!
    Completely agree. There are some excellent teachers, who either move from school to school to progress or through the ranks of their own schools. However, this does mean they are spending less time in the classroom, which isnt as good for the kids.

    On the other hand there are some shocking teachers, who are happy to stay where they are, take the regular pay-rises and moan about everything, just doing the minimum. I suppose it's no different to any profession.

    If more opportunities existed, that still keep the good teachers in the classroom it would be better. A large number of staff need some CPD and need to stop quoting their unions so much. A little give and take here and there can make all the difference.

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    Re: Is this right?

    Quite right........ Continuing Professional Development or Cut Pay Drastically….. take your choice!

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    Re: Is this right?

    Teachers are no differnet to any other people, some are good and some are bad. Some deserve the money they are paid, and some dont. Show me where this doesn't happen.

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    Re: Is this right?

    The difference is that like it or not, if a business is clearly "carrying an employee" and the Employer had invested time and resources for training, they would have no alternative but to release them.

    The employee would also probably be on a “probation period” anyway or a short term contact, from which they can swiftly be released.

  8. #68
    Disease's Avatar
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    Re: Is this right?

    Our old Head of IT who was also an AST was being paid 42k a year and was getting 19% A-C every year, he was that good at his job that he missed entire sections out of the scheme of work to do with Input/Ouput. He retired the other year and was replaced with guy from industry who is not even a qualified teacher and in the first year the result went up 80%.

    So much for being a qualified teacher to teach kids.

    I find the difference to be this:

    I could do their job (teachers) standing on my head.
    They could not do my job for 10 mins.

    Thats fact.

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    Re: Is this right?

    I think we are going slightly off topic here and getting hot under the collar about Teachers pay.

    To answer the OP's question

    Should an ICT Technician be asked to write a scheme of work?

    NO

    Should an ICT Technician help to write the ICT element of a scheme of work?

    NO

    If a teacher doesn't have a clue how they could incorporate ICT to enhance their scheme of work for their subject, then IMO they should'nt be teaching!

    8O

  10. #70
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    Re: Is this right?

    Quote Originally Posted by djm968
    If a teacher doesn't have a clue how they could incorporate ICT to enhance their scheme of work for their subject, then IMO they should'nt be teaching!

    8O

    Agreed.

  11. #71

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    Re: Is this right?

    Disease - I aggree, except I'd make a rubbish teacher - I just dont have the patience. But no one here could take over from me if I was off for any length of time. Interesting enough I did used to get pupils asking me if I was taking the IT lessons when the IT teacher was off. It made me laugh....anyway time to go home, its friday afternoon

  12. #72
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    Re: Is this right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Disease
    Our old Head of IT who was also an AST was being paid 42k a year and was getting 19% A-C every year, he was that good at his job that he missed entire sections out of the scheme of work to do with Input/Ouput. He retired the other year and was replaced with guy from industry who is not even a qualified teacher and in the first year the result went up 80%.

    So much for being a qualified teacher to teach kids.

    I find the difference to be this:

    I could do their job (teachers) standing on my head.
    They could not do my job for 10 mins.

    Thats fact.
    I used to espouse to that theory, and if you're talking about a large proportion of teachers, particularly newly qualified teachers then I'm sure you CAN do their job standing on your head. But having witnessed knowledgeable and exprienced teachers at work i wouldn't be so flippant about their ability.

    The years spent in the classroom when teaching really was a vocation has taught them a thing or two about keeping control of a class and keeping pupils motivated. Some of them even embrace new technology.

    I couldn't do what they do, but then nor would I want to. That's why I'm in IT - whether i support the IT needs of a school, college, hospital, call centre or whatever it frankly doesn't concern me a great deal.

  13. #73

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    Re: Is this right?

    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk
    dhicks - computers will never look after themselves I'm afraid, that is far too optimistic.
    Not entirely, but I have seen a dramatic reduction in the incidence of problems in my schools since I started. They had no technician time beforehand, but with the introduction of regular attention, the systems are mainly self sufficient.

    I don't get as far as being involved with lesson planning, but I do see myself as ICT support - meaning I provide support for the teaching of ICT. At the end of the day, in a school, the pupils and their learning is what everyone should be concerned with. And if that means putting down the screwdriver and picking up a National Curriculum once in a while to help a teacher without a clue on ICT, so be it.

    Surely it's doing the different things like that that keep us in school rather than going off to the corporate world where the bigger money is.

  14. #74

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    Re: Is this right?

    Quote Originally Posted by djm968
    The employee would also probably be on a “probation period” anyway or a short term contact, from which they can swiftly be released.
    New teachers can be employed for a probationary period. I used to do it as a school governor. They would be told that they and their work would be reviewed after the first year. OK, it's probably not the sort of probationary period you'd get in industry, but the option is there.

  15. #75

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    Re: Is this right?

    Some interesting comments in there ... some half decent discussion ... but unfortunately also some teacher bashing just for the sake of it.

    Before I play Devil's Advocate can I just make a comment.

    Some of the teacher bashing is based around teachers that are not up to the standards we are putting up (ok, we generally have high standards when it comes to teachers understanding IT and ICT). I hate to say it, but there are lots of teacher out there that are pretty switched on and we should respect that and be glad about it. If you are in a school where they are not then get involved in making a difference. Trust me ... it works.

    Rather than bashing those with decent wages wonder why we do not get the same wages (in general) I won't knock a plasterer if I was working as a brickie (actually ... come to think about it, I did ... but that was just because they were idiots who kept using our brushes to clean their kit!

    Back to the discussion in hand though ... I'll give an example from my place. We employ curriculum technicians and HLTAs to assist staff with this ... but someone has to train them in some tasks. Some of it is done by teachers, some by us. There are times when we do things because there are no other staff capable ... and that identifies a training need both with the teachers and the HLTAs / Curriculum Technicians.

    We now have a few HLTAs who are really skilled in a range of applications and can create a variety of resources ... the HLTAs also double up as cover teachers, work in the class with small groups of students and have a fantastic knowledge of T&L.

    This is what HLTAs were designed for but not all schools have them or all departments have them. Instead a school has to make use of resources they have ... and if that means a member of support staff then that is why in most contracts for *all* staff you find that little extra, "or other duties as the Headteacher deems necessary"!

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