+ Post New Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 45
General Chat Thread, 'Teachers know absolutely nothing about the world of work' in General; I think that possibly it is more along the lines of Cable suggesting that those who went the school-college-uni-school route ...
  1. #16

    Dos_Box's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Preston, Lancashire
    Posts
    9,432
    Thank Post
    700
    Thanked 2,302 Times in 1,063 Posts
    Blog Entries
    23
    Rep Power
    678
    I think that possibly it is more along the lines of Cable suggesting that those who went the school-college-uni-school route do not possibly have the skills required to tell school leavers about how to seaerch for apprentiships, jobs and other opportinities and to appreciate that not everyone is suited for higher education.
    From my time in schools in the early 2000's the prescribed route was to funnel everyone into college straight from schools. It hadn't helped that many mahjor comapnies had stopped their apprentice programs at teh time for cost purposes reasoning that they could recruit from an already skilled pool.
    This policy has backfired in recent years with the skilled people now retiring and there being no one to take their places. Companies such as United Utilities and BAE have in recent times restarted their apprentice programs. Several freinds of mine are now managers in these companies and have told me first hand how bad things got with skills shortages, especially as labour from eastern Europe didn't have the required skills and qualifications (and in many cases security clearance) to fill the posts.
    There is palnty of well paid work out there for those that don't want to go down the university route.

  2. #17


    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    3,384
    Thank Post
    301
    Thanked 914 Times in 682 Posts
    Rep Power
    346
    While Cable might have a point - that careers advice in schools is problematic, it's far from clear that the solution lies in the personal experience of any individual. The "world of work" is so vast that no one, not even a politician, can have personal experience that would equip them to meaningfully advise any secondary school student on the route they should take to achieve whatever they aspire to. So it is likely then that good careers advice is a process not at all reliant on the personal experience of any individual careers adviser. An advisor is a conduit to knowledge and people who do have personal experience of a particular subject field/employment. I'm not clear why teachers, whatever their personal experience, are not capable of performing that role. If they are not, then Mr Cable fails to identify anyone in a school who is better placed.

    So while Mr Cable's public droolings might be motivated by a genuine concern for the quality of careers advice out there, his analysis of the problem is rather poor and if someone can't identify the actual problem, they are extremely unlikely to be able to solve it. Perhaps Mr Cable's inability to think this through stems from an aversion to teachers which he acquired early in life. And rather like the poor career advice he was obviously given, it's probably just too late to correct that now. Even if he did want to address his inability to think by going back to school, would he now be able to find anyone willing to teach him?

  3. #18

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    198
    Thank Post
    9
    Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts
    Rep Power
    22
    Christine Blower, general secretary of the National Union of Teachers (NUT), said: “This is a crass remark, which is insulting to teachers who are workers in their own right.
    I'm not a teacher but the statement above sums it up pretty well. I am friends with a number of teachers and I wouldn't want their job no matter what the pay. Palying to the crowd Mr Cable. The last time the Libreals did that they stated they wouldn't introduce/put up tuition fees. A lie plain and simple

  4. #19

    witch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Dorset
    Posts
    11,498
    Thank Post
    1,527
    Thanked 2,626 Times in 1,821 Posts
    Rep Power
    784
    With reference to careers search - our local schools use something called Connexions who allegedly help with careers. My children, who are now 25, 23 and 21 got NO help at all from these clowns - it was all "have a look along the shelves and see if there is anything you fancy" when really they needed advice as to the sort of things that were available. My eldest was pushed towards university because he was in the top third of the school but if anyone had actually tried to help him he might have avoided doing a degree he hated and struggling to find a way in the world of work (at 25 he is now in a graduate level job and hopefully back on track)
    We as parents asked for help too and got nothing. We had no idea about jobs that would enable study at the same time - it was either do an apprenticeship in plumbing or electrics or go to uni - nothing else.
    It hasnt changed either, my friends with children around 16 report that the same things are happening.
    The thing is, this service isn't run by teachers anyway and it is still useless, so Vince Cable needs to look at this.

  5. Thanks to witch from:

    BassTech (6th March 2014)

  6. #20
    hardtailstar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    2,074
    Thank Post
    672
    Thanked 307 Times in 257 Posts
    Rep Power
    73
    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    With reference to careers search - our local schools use something called Connexions who allegedly help with careers. My children, who are now 25, 23 and 21 got NO help at all from these clowns - it was all "have a look along the shelves and see if there is anything you fancy" when really they needed advice as to the sort of things that were available. My eldest was pushed towards university because he was in the top third of the school but if anyone had actually tried to help him he might have avoided doing a degree he hated and struggling to find a way in the world of work (at 25 he is now in a graduate level job and hopefully back on track)
    We as parents asked for help too and got nothing. We had no idea about jobs that would enable study at the same time - it was either do an apprenticeship in plumbing or electrics or go to uni - nothing else.
    It hasnt changed either, my friends with children around 16 report that the same things are happening.
    The thing is, this service isn't run by teachers anyway and it is still useless, so Vince Cable needs to look at this.
    I'm 25 and went through the same Connexions rubbish, They insisted I went to University but I wanted to go to college and go to work after that.... Im so glad I listened to myself as most of my friends coming out of uni have no practical skills and struggling to find a job.

  7. #21
    mthomas08's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,670
    Thank Post
    142
    Thanked 184 Times in 154 Posts
    Rep Power
    66
    I have to say this is spot on:
    “They know how universities work, they know what you have to do to get an A-level, they know about UCAS forms – but they know absolutely nothing about the world of work.”

    How many of us know teachers that worry about "non" teaching, worry about their EGOs or if they have the latest device of technology and use any excuse to get it.

    Unfortunately he is doing exactly what WE all suffer, being branded with the same brush. I have known many poor technicians who do their hours, never any more, never go the extra mile for their job or even have that lazy attitude of "I cant be bothered". We can get branded badly thanks to those.

    Are all teachers the same? nope, I know many who have been called outstanding and go well beyond their job. Sadly I also know some poor teachers who don't prioritise their Students above their own personal gain.

    *edit

    I still believe and it hasn't changed from working in a 2nd Academy that a School should be run or have some one Very high up who is business orientated. It is after all treated like a business and has to do well. Instead of it being profit based its simply results based. You can then have a Head Teacher who is simply head of the Teachers and can also concentrate on Teaching and Learning.
    Last edited by mthomas08; 6th March 2014 at 12:47 PM.

  8. #22
    GeekyPete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    In a cold dark server room.
    Posts
    352
    Thank Post
    24
    Thanked 81 Times in 61 Posts
    Rep Power
    27
    “But the underlying problem is of course that most teachers, particularly in the secondary sector, are graduates.

    “They know how universities work, they know what you have to do to get an A-level, they know about UCAS forms – but they know absolutely nothing about the world of work.”

    Pretty rich from a Cambridge graduate who's knowledge of work before becoming a Politian was Finance advisor to the Kenyan Government, Economist for Shell and a Economics lecturer in Glasgow Uni. A real Average Joe. He's been in politics since the 70's and an MP since 1997. When do you think the last time he put in a hard days graft, the kind that would let him experience "the world of work". These are the ramblings of a man in his dotage. He should be boring his cronies over a G&T with his pet philosophies in his local. He's only making himself look foolish.

    The comment about Most teachers are Graduates just shows what an idiot he is. What he's actually saying is that the problem is that most teachers are qualified to do their job.
    Last edited by GeekyPete; 7th March 2014 at 12:19 AM.

  9. #23
    GeekyPete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    In a cold dark server room.
    Posts
    352
    Thank Post
    24
    Thanked 81 Times in 61 Posts
    Rep Power
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by mthomas08 View Post
    Sadly I also know some poor teachers who don't prioritise their Students above their own personal gain.
    You mean every single one in Harvard school of business? If you are teaching people to thrive in a capitalistic world who better to teach them than capitalists. A good teacher knows that the success of the students and their own personal gain goes hand in hand. It's actually the lazy ones who don't get it that are letting everyone down. Including themselves and their own prosperity.

    Teacher care, without a doubt but take off those rose tinted spectacles. Take away personal gain and you'll have no teachers in school. Good, bad or indifferent.

  10. #24

    Ephelyon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Cheshire, England
    Posts
    1,849
    Thank Post
    348
    Thanked 391 Times in 248 Posts
    Rep Power
    162
    In the world of the Information Age, a lot of the details on how to enter a particular career pathway are much more widely available than they used to be. But this misses the point. I should've thought a large part of the job of anyone "advising on careers" is to point the kids in the right direction (should it really be that hard nowadays?) and then motivate them to achieve. In that case, teachers ought to be eminently qualified.

  11. #25


    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    3,414
    Thank Post
    184
    Thanked 356 Times in 285 Posts
    Rep Power
    149
    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    With reference to careers search - our local schools use something called Connexions who allegedly help with careers.
    That's brilliant help compared to what we got (I'm 30 btw). We did a stupid quiz on the computer (could have been an acorn, can't remember) which told me I should be a rocket scientist. Then I had a "talk" with my German teacher who, because I couldn't give a... about languages, thought I was a SEN kid and just said "yeah, you're gunna end up in a factory or something ain't you..."

    Connexions came in with a presence on (or rather just off) the high street when I left college. Went in, they told me "Sorry, can't help if you're 18..."


    The problem is who knows about many other jobs than those in their chosen industry? Less and less teachers have had jobs "in the real world", that is true (and something which does worry me but that's for another thread), but after the experience we had of a construction worker coming in and doing the most boring talk on construction, listing each trade you can do, I can't actually think of someone more qualified to do talks than a teacher... But then I doubt there was a single teacher in the hall who understood what 90% of the trades he listed were...

    Can't we just make it simple again and re-open the mines? That way us plebs know exactly what we're going to do when we leave school.

  12. #26
    CAM
    CAM is online now

    CAM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Reigate Area, Surrey
    Posts
    4,414
    Thank Post
    880
    Thanked 416 Times in 316 Posts
    Blog Entries
    61
    Rep Power
    328
    Quote Originally Posted by GeekyPete View Post
    “But the underlying problem is of course that most teachers, particularly in the secondary sector, are graduates.

    “They know how universities work, they know what you have to do to get an A-level, they know about UCAS forms – but they know absolutely nothing about the world of work.”

    Pretty rich from a Cambridge graduate who's knowledge of work before becoming a Politian was Finance advisor to the Kenyan Government, Economist for Shell and a Economics lecturer in Glasgow Uni. A real Average Joe. He's been in politics since the 70's and an MP since 1997. When do you think the last time he put in a hard days graft, the kind that would let him experience "the world of work". These are the ramblings of a man in his dotage. He should be boring his cronies over a G&T with his pet philosophies in his local. He's only making himself look foolish.

    The comment about Most teachers are Graduates just shows what an idiot he is. What he's actually saying is that the problem is that most teachers are qualified to do their job.
    Why don't you consider Economics to be a "proper job" then? Seems fine to me, and handy if making financial decisions later affecting a whole country.

  13. #27

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    18,510
    Thank Post
    526
    Thanked 2,640 Times in 2,044 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    896
    Its somewhat indicative of the current government thinking about teachers (and doctors, nurses, well, any public sector worker that isn't an MP). They don't consider what we do as "working". They only consider those people who work for companies that generate money directly to be workers. Its much like the way businesses sack the IT team first when making cuts in their business, as they don't directly generate money but the issue appears 6 months down the line when their business falls apart because they now don't have the right staff to support those departments which do generate money directly.

    Constantly attacking those people who are educating our next generation of 'workers' will simply discourage people from entering those professions. We'll see more of a drop in results because we aren't getting enough decent teachers to sign up so they can be abused.

  14. #28

    X-13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    /dev/null
    Posts
    9,833
    Thank Post
    667
    Thanked 2,186 Times in 1,492 Posts
    Blog Entries
    19
    Rep Power
    900
    Quote Originally Posted by mthomas08 View Post
    I have known many poor technicians who do their hours, never any more, never go the extra mile for their job or even have that lazy attitude of "I cant be bothered". We can get branded badly thanks to those.
    I work my hours and no more. That's all I'm paid to do.

    Any good-will I had towards this school has been beaten out of me by childish, manipulative teachers.

  15. #29
    jimmy_2k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    198
    Thank Post
    4
    Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by j17sparky View Post
    That's brilliant help compared to what we got (I'm 30 btw). We did a stupid quiz on the computer (could have been an acorn, can't remember) which told me I should be a rocket scientist. Then I had a "talk" with my German teacher who, because I couldn't give a... about languages, thought I was a SEN kid and just said "yeah, you're gunna end up in a factory or something ain't you..."

    Connexions came in with a presence on (or rather just off) the high street when I left college. Went in, they told me "Sorry, can't help if you're 18..."


    The problem is who knows about many other jobs than those in their chosen industry? Less and less teachers have had jobs "in the real world", that is true (and something which does worry me but that's for another thread), but after the experience we had of a construction worker coming in and doing the most boring talk on construction, listing each trade you can do, I can't actually think of someone more qualified to do talks than a teacher... But then I doubt there was a single teacher in the hall who understood what 90% of the trades he listed were...

    Can't we just make it simple again and re-open the mines? That way us plebs know exactly what we're going to do when we leave school.
    Was it the Cudos quiz by any chance? I had immigration officer and veterinary nurse on that one! I was telling my mentee a couple of years ago that I "fell" into computing because I wanted to do electronics but I was terrible with a soldering iron. I don't think he was that impressed with my careers advice either! but from personal experience I am glad when I left private boarding school I went to a local college as you could say it "grounded" me in the real world, introduced me to lots of different types of people and prepared me for the world of work.

  16. #30

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,859
    Thank Post
    93
    Thanked 325 Times in 245 Posts
    Rep Power
    92
    He's not given a great example but I think he makes a valid point, Teachers don't really seem to understand how the world of work outside of academia functions. The large number of teachers who think their job roles gives them authority on the wilder world is a little scary, tack onto that the complete lack of understanding about full time hours and how support services work ( not just us, but things like garages and media companies seem to bamboozle them)



SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 13th April 2014, 06:19 PM
  2. I'm New Too... To the world of MAC...
    By ShaneShepherd-Ashby in forum Mac
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 8th October 2012, 10:46 AM
  3. The World of Woecraft
    By X-13 in forum Gaming
    Replies: 91
    Last Post: 10th April 2011, 02:39 PM
  4. Worried about the growth of the network...
    By sidewinder in forum Wireless Networks
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10th October 2006, 12:01 AM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •