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General Chat Thread, Detective work - help in General; Originally Posted by NickJones Originally Posted by richard you don't know what he might have been trying to bring into ...
  1. #31
    richard
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    Re: Detective work - help

    Quote Originally Posted by NickJones
    Quote Originally Posted by richard
    you don't know what he might have been trying to bring into school.
    Which is why we have Software Restriction Policies and anti-virus programs.

    If you find it lying around, you could argue a case for looking at it to identify the owner; if you can't find that out, then you wait for it to be claimed. I don't think you have any more right to have a look through all their files than you do to stop a random kid in the corridor and demand they empty their bag and pockets.
    I think that random searches of pupils is a very good idea personally.

  2. #32
    mrforgetful's Avatar
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    Re: Detective work - help

    I guess this is where us libertarians differ to you totalitarians.

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    Re: Detective work - help

    Nick are you software restriction policies so accurate that they could block out documents that contained personal information about other kids? pictures of other kids etc?

    Blocking programs and have AV isn't enough, you have to keep your eyes open and yes that means checking any USB drives that are left lying around, not only for bad content but also to find out who owns them.

    If something was on that drive that you didn't find and was later used for something illegal, questions could be asked as to why you returned it to the owner without checking.

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    Re: Detective work - help

    The same way if you find a bag laying around and don't look but return is and later ends up having a knife which is used to stab someone you'd be responsible?

    You're not allowed to search bags.

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    Re: Detective work - help

    Well as always points like this bring up a range of issue's about privacy and the like, just like the tes post but we wont go there again.

    The memory stick was found 4 weeks ago at the end of the day, we held onto it for 3 weeks waiting for someone to come claim it. No one did so we opened it up to find a username attached to an office doc, trust me you didn't have to search to find this stuff was hard to find work on it.

    Doing a file restore on deleted files it goes back 18 months of use all with stuff that he shouldn't have in school. So in my eyes guilty and the HM is backing me.

    As to whether we can look through the memory stick in the first place our AUP which the students/parents have all just signed this term state "Computer storage areas, flash drives and CDs will be treated like school lockers. ICT Staff may review your files and communications to ensure that you are using the system responsibly."

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    Re: Detective work - help

    ahhh an aup that covers you to look, fair enough.

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    Re: Detective work - help

    Bag searches, metal detectors, police drug sniffer dog searches and mobiles handed in at the start of the day is what I'd have if I ran the place.

  8. #38

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    Re: Detective work - help

    Doing a file restore on deleted files it goes back 18 months of use all with stuff that he shouldn't have in school. So in my eyes guilty and the HM is backing me.
    Definitely guilty then. Your work is done dave.81

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    Re: Detective work - help

    Quote Originally Posted by sunny_nunny
    Does anyone have a copy of that lovely little utility that deletes all the music from iPods if they are plugged in to a Win2003/XP network? Used to use it at my old job. :-)
    Wouldn't that count as criminal damage or something like that? :?

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    Re: Detective work - help

    > Since the pen drive belongs to the child and not the school, what rights
    > did you have to go looking at its contents?

    Because it's a school, and they're a pupil, there for education and guidance. Privacy is a right for adults. This goes the other way, too - the child in question needs to have a sit down and a talk about /why/ owning a USB stick loaded with pornography is wrong. Just yelling at them / banning them from the network / suspending them from school won't teach them anything besides to be more cunning about how they go about doing wrong things in the future.

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    Re: Detective work - help

    Quote Originally Posted by crc-ict
    Quote Originally Posted by sunny_nunny
    Does anyone have a copy of that lovely little utility that deletes all the music from iPods if they are plugged in to a Win2003/XP network? Used to use it at my old job. :-)
    Wouldn't that count as criminal damage or something like that? :?
    Who cares?

  12. #42
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    Re: Detective work - help

    Quote Originally Posted by richard
    I think that random searches of pupils is a very good idea personally.
    You might think that, the law thinks differently however (even the Police don't have totally random stop and search powers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Halfmad
    Nick are you software restriction policies so accurate that they could block out documents that contained personal information about other kids? pictures of other kids etc?
    No, of course it isn't, but then nor are the checks which we (and probably you) run over networked file areas either. We routinely scan them for viruses and other threats to network security, but that's the extent of it. Are you genuinely telling me that you have measures in place to ensure that no one has their mate's mobile number in a Word document, that other people's privacy is not being breached by email, etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by Halfmad
    If something was on that drive that you didn't find and was later used for something illegal, questions could be asked as to why you returned it to the owner without checking.
    Rubbish! I am not responsible for illegal activity carried out using information stored on students' privately-owned pen drives. Returning to the day planner analogy, let's imagine someone finds my planner in a room somewhere, turns to the details on page 1, finds my name and returns it to me. What they didn't spot was that I had bomb making instructions on page 172 - when that blows up, is that person also responsible? Absolutely not.

    But let's assume for a minute that you're right, and it is my job as Network Manager to check for risks to personal safety in the form of private data on misplaced pen drives. Surely that duty should also be extended to those pen drives which haven't been lost? So by your argument I should be taking pen drives off students (either at random or alphabetically) and checking them. I'm sorry, but get real!

    Quote Originally Posted by dave.81
    As to whether we can look through the memory stick in the first place our AUP which the students/parents have all just signed this term state "Computer storage areas, flash drives and CDs will be treated like school lockers. ICT Staff may review your files and communications to ensure that you are using the system responsibly."
    Then, you're covered. Possibly.

    There's still the issue that the school owns the lockers, but doesn't own the pen drives... Your AUP probably stands up to the scrutiny of most parents, but I wonder if it would actually stand proper legal scrutiny (and before you say this will never happen, at some point you will have a student whose parents are lawyers or solicitors, and Sod's Law states it will be one of them who turns out to own the pen drive). I am sure that this applies to most of our AUPs, mine included no doubt.

  13. #43

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    Re: Detective work - help

    The issue of portable storage devices boils down to this.

    *We* (the school) do *not* have an obligation, legal or otherwise, to allow you to connect or use any portable storage device on an computer that is under the control of the school.

    *We* (the school) will give you permission and the ability to use portable storage devices on the proviso that you allow us to control what you do with them, what files are stored on them and who can access those files.

    We give a little on security so you gain on usability ... you give a little on privacy so we gain on control.

    Pretty much sums it up.

  14. #44

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    Re: Detective work - help

    I asked a lawyer friend of mine and he said that looking through the drive is suspect, whatever the policy says - UNLESS you have one as tighly written as Grumbledook says and even then, the punishments need to be spelled out before they can be applied
    As has been said- it is personal property and should be treated as such.

    The only thing the school can reasonably do is ban the student from using a pen drive on the system. (he said)
    Anything else is open to legal action by said student

  15. #45
    richard
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    Re: Detective work - help

    Quote Originally Posted by sunny_nunny
    Bag searches, metal detectors, police drug sniffer dog searches and mobiles handed in at the start of the day is what I'd have if I ran the place.
    I would agree with you totally, along with bringing back capital, ooops I mean corporal punishment for all young offenders. There is nothing like public floggings for instilling discipline these days.

    Like I said the emphasis should be on the accused proving their innocence instead of us proving their guilt.

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