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General Chat Thread, Time Keeping ? have to clock in out and for dinner ! after single status Do/Dont you in General; So Single status bites again all support staff now have to submit time sheets of their start, end and dinner ...
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    Time Keeping ? have to clock in out and for dinner ! after single status Do/Dont you

    So Single status bites again

    all support staff now have to submit time sheets of their start, end and dinner times to be sure we are working our hours and that we are not working before 7am or after 7pm
    I have also been told I cannot use the remote systems at the weekend or between 7pm and 7am , this creates rather a large problem as I tend to do a lot of work remotely

    can you tell me, do you or Don't you have to keep a timesheet ?

    stef
    Last edited by sjpage10; 1st March 2014 at 06:41 PM.

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    DaveP's Avatar
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    We are not required to complete timesheets.

    I have had two jobs where timesheets were required. In each role I was working for a company, not working in a school.

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    witch's Avatar
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    Have to sign in and out in a book. Initially just the support staff because "we know whether the teachers are here or not" Oh yes? they are always popping out at lunchtime. Also there was a row about putting times down as it was allegedly NOT checking on times, but just making sure the school knew who was in or out in case of emergency.
    Now all staff sign in and out and put the times down as it was pointed out that if we get an electronic system it will record the time anyway.
    Nobody has told us we can't work at specific times but the school isn't opened till 7 and is closed at 7 so it would be difficult. Why do you do so much remote stuff - is it extra to your hours?

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    Sounds like a lovely place to work. Wonder how long it will be until they time toilet breaks. Shouldn't this be managed by ermm... managers and not bean counters.

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    I used to keep a timesheet, and expect to do so again soon. I can't any reason why a timesheet is contenious, unless people are not doing their full hours.

    Why is not working pre-7am and post-7pm an issue? If you're not paid for it, then there's no problem. If you want to do it voluntary again there's no problem as you wouldn't mark it down anyway?

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    I've haven't had to clock in or out of the school, academy or college I've work(ed) at. I did when I worked in the private sector. When I worked for a etailer, if you were a minute late clocking in, they docked you a 1/2 hour pay. If I got held up in the traffic and knew I was going to be a couple of minutes last, which was quite common as we were by Edgbaston, I'd stop for a coffee and use up the 1/2 hour.

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    yes remote time could be used as extra hours for us however it is also a massive benefit to be able to work undisturbed and with no other users on the system, but no longer as we are not allowed to work out of certain hours ,
    I did offer to come in early or use the remote unpaid however I was told that it's still working out of hours and they are classed as unsocial hours our local council is trying to prevent people from working these, plus I would have to be paid extra for working unsociable hours !

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    We don't use time sheets unless a employee takes the mic. We had one tech that would do around 3 hours a week less than he should be, he only had to work 15. We made him do one.

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    sparkeh's Avatar
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    All our staff sign in and out via electronic system. Largely this is just for fire register purposes and to know who is on\off site. It has been used twice to look at someone's hours but then they were already facing disciplinary action.

    I have known schools that only make support staff sign in and I really hate that. Often it seems the less you are paid, the more you are checked on and the less you are trusted.

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    Our biometric system has a sign in point for all staff. It is used for fire, but then staff don't sign out, mainly teachers, who think they know better.

    Teachers also kicked up a fuss about it recording times, but as they don't work set hours, why would they care?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjpage10 View Post
    yes remote time could be used as extra hours for us however it is also a massive benefit to be able to work undisturbed and with no other users on the system, but no longer as we are not allowed to work out of certain hours ,
    I did offer to come in early or use the remote unpaid however I was told that it's still working out of hours and they are classed as unsocial hours our local council is trying to prevent people from working these, plus I would have to be paid extra for working unsociable hours !
    To be honest, I don't see this as a problem for you. They've pretty much explicitly told you that they don't want you working out of hours and they would rather that tasks that require a service interruption either don't get done or are done during the normal working day.

    That's their choice and they've picked the option that allows you to keep your own time for yourself, which is surely a good thing... unless, and this isn't entirely clear from your post, you were being paid for this time and the new rules are resulting in a drop in your wages, in which case I can see why you'd be annoyed.

    As for recording times, we have individual turnstiles that record all staff and student entrance and exits. Doesn't bother me.
    Last edited by Roberto; 2nd March 2014 at 09:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberto View Post
    To be honest, I don't see this as a problem for you. They've pretty much explicitly told you that they don't want you working out of hours and they would rather that tasks that require a service interruption either don't get done or are done during the normal working day. That's their choice and they've picked the option that allows you to keep your own time for yourself, which is surely a good thing.

    As for recording times, we have individual turnstiles that record all staff and student entrance and exits.
    All true, but i would find that frustrating because that's not how it's supposed to be done. I take it as part of my role to deliver an efficient network, and at my NM pay level, I accept the need to do some work out of hours in order to fullfill my obligations, and so does the school.

    Maintenance in normal hours is not how networks should be run, so it's probably very frustrating for the OP to have to have his network now probably at higher risk of failures because of these rule changes, when he is trying to run a decent network.

    I do agree that they have brought this on themselves, but I couldn't accept that without making it very clear about the possible effects that this policy might have.

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    we don’t get paid for any extra work , but we could accrue time in lieu if a lot of time was spent out of hours

    Maintenance in normal hours is not how networks should be run, so it's probably very frustrating for the OP to have to have his network now probably at higher risk of failures because of these rule changes, when he is trying to run a decent network.
    Exactly

    they would rather that tasks that require a service interruption either don't get done or are done during the normal working day. That's their choice
    the problem is that for over 5 years we have never had to shut the system down or stop the network for updates / repairs etc. during school hours - so from their point of view , they never see the system go down so presume it never does ! - if any of you have seen my other post you will have read that we used to go in early as well to be sure systems where up to date and working before anyone logged on

    I think they may be in for a rude awakening

    stef
    Last edited by sjpage10; 2nd March 2014 at 10:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattianuk View Post
    All true, but i would find that frustrating because that's not how it's supposed to be done. I take it as part of my role to deliver an efficient network, and at my NM pay level, I accept the need to do some work out of hours in order to fullfill my obligations, and so does the school.

    Maintenance in normal hours is not how networks should be run, so it's probably very frustrating for the OP to have to have his network now probably at higher risk of failures because of these rule changes, when he is trying to run a decent network.

    I do agree that they have brought this on themselves, but I couldn't accept that without making it very clear about the possible effects that this policy might have.
    Well I'd feel much the same way myself but in this particular case the school/LEA has made it plain that they do not want things done this way. I understand why @sjpage10 is upset, I do, but once you've made the implications of a bad decision clear to your line management and they say "well we're doing it my way anyway" then there's no point in stressing out about it. That's all I'm saying.

    We work full time at 'my' college, so all the IT staff are in during half terms and the like, along with a lot of the other support staff. We schedule work during those times to minimise disruption because that's how our SLT want it done, and if I'm told "you can't update the MIS server during this half term because...." then I don't worry about it. Not because I don't care about delivering a good service but because I know the people above me are already aware of the arguments and concerns I would raise and have deemed them less important than keeping the service up. It's their call.

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    We don't have any sign in system here, and I'd not like such a system to be introduced either. It encourages "rigid" thinking from people on both ends (managers and workers). Schools only do well when everyone is happy to be flexible and work for the best outcomes of the kids. The last place I worked at, and left after a year, I was told by one manager "only do your hours and no more" and I found that attitude highly damaging. It felt it throughout the school and it explained why the school only received a satisfactory Ofsted.

    Saying for you not to do remote work or work late sometimes (the after 7pm stuff) seems like they're obsessed with finance rather than outcomes. You should do as you have been told though, and the school will have to deal with the consequences - which will be disruption during working hours on the network. That isn't your fault and you should not feel uncomfortable with this. Don't stress about it. Highlight the cause to managers if they complain and then it is up to them to reverse their policy or not.

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