Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?

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General Chat Thread, [POLL] Should Scotland be an independent country? in General; Originally Posted by elsiegee40 No, but it shows how people would vote were there a referendum available. You vote in ...
  1. #91

    Gatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elsiegee40 View Post
    No, but it shows how people would vote were there a referendum available. You vote in the country you live in usually, so it seems fair
    This is true I suppose

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveP View Post
    That had crossed my mind. However I thought that as it was exactly the same poll [by design] I thought that it belonged in the same thread.

    If @Gatt doesn't mind I will create a new thread for my SurveyMapper poll.

    I have two responses on my poll so far.
    Go for it

  2. Thanks to Gatt from:

    DaveP (20th February 2014)

  3. #92
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    Why should Cameron debate? As has been made painfully clear this is a vote on the future of Scotland, not the future of the United Kingdom. This referendum is between the people of Scotland and the political parties of the Scottish Assembly.

    Once again you can't say that this is a Scottish issue and rUK cannot vote and then expect the political parties of rUK to get involved in a formal debate on the issue, where quite honestly Cameron would be mullered one way or the other.

    If this referendum was on the future of the entire United Kingdom where every citizen had a vote, then yes the Westminster leaders should be out debating this US style (ugh), but it's not.

    The whole setup is remarkably screwed up. It's a Scottish issue, but really it's not as it involves everyone in the UK. Who campaigns for the Union? Scottish MPs? Should the Westminster elite get involved as it directly affects the entire Union, or should they stay away as the referendum is setup for the Scots? If Westminster leaders get involved are they campaigning for the Union and the rUK citizens who do not have a say or are they (as I'm sure would be portrayed north of the border) once again interfering in sovereign Scottish affairs?

    This whole mess could have been handled far better.
    Last edited by Trapper; 20th February 2014 at 07:46 PM.

  4. #93

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  5. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trapper View Post
    Why should Cameron debate? As has been made painfully clear this is a vote on the future of Scotland, not the future of the United Kingdom. This referendum is between the people of Scotland and the political parties of the Scottish Assembly.

    Once again you can't say that this is a Scottish issue and rUK cannot vote and then expect the political parties of rUK to get involved in a formal debate on the issue, where quite honestly Cameron would be mullered one way or the other.

    If this referendum was on the future of the entire United Kingdom where every citizen had a vote, then yes the Westminster leaders should be out debating this US style (ugh), but it's not.

    The whole setup is remarkably screwed up. It's a Scottish issue, but really it's not as it involves everyone in the UK. Who campaigns for the Union? Scottish MPs? Should the Westminster elite get involved as it directly affects the entire Union, or should they stay away as the referendum is setup for the Scots? If Westminster leaders get involved are they campaigning for the Union and the rUK citizens who do not have a say or are they (as I'm sure would be portrayed north of the border) once again interfering in sovereign Scottish affairs?

    This whole mess could have been handled far better.
    You forget they could hardly be called interfering when ASKED for a debate to help clear up misconceptions between the current leader of union against the potential leader of an independant Scotland. You may not see it as an issue but the people who are actually voting do, the refusal sends the wrong message and aids the Yes campaign greatly.

    EDIT: To cheer everyone up a bit a potential Scottish pound

    [POLL] Should Scotland be an independent country?-1622750_218723071650303_1383608571_n.jpg
    Last edited by ZeroHour; 20th February 2014 at 08:00 PM.

  6. 2 Thanks to ZeroHour:

    ButterflyMoon (20th February 2014), nephilim (20th February 2014)

  7. #95
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    Ok it's a while ago and from the Torygraph, but the language of Salmond:

    Alex Salmond wants David Cameron to make 'anti-Scottish' case in TV debate - Telegraph

    “articulate a case against Scotland” - whatever Cameron said would be soundbite nirvana for the SNP. Given that sort of language, would you?
    Last edited by Trapper; 20th February 2014 at 08:01 PM.

  8. #96

    ZeroHour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trapper View Post
    Ok it's a while ago and from the Torygraph, but the language of Salmond:

    Alex Salmond wants David Cameron to make 'anti-Scottish' case in TV debate - Telegraph

    “articulate a case against Scotland” - whatever Cameron said would be soundbite nirvana for the SNP. Given that sort of language, before he declined, would you?
    If Cameron can't deal with Salmond in a debate he isnt doing a very good job, Cameron can hold his own usually in debates.
    Also that presumes we are pretty dense and dont see Salmond for what he engineers during the debate.
    Last edited by ZeroHour; 20th February 2014 at 08:05 PM.

  9. #97
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    It would be a powerful anti-Union message though. English Toff PM making an anti-Scottish can go it alone stance. However he would phrase the pro-Union argument it would come back to that.

    It's not being a chicken. It's like trying to debate Ed Balls. You get nowhere, he just keeps banging on about the same thing until everyone wants to punch him.

    Edit - And I'm a Labour man! And I still want to deck Ed Balls!

  10. #98
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    Purely out of interest it would have been very interesting to see this entire debate when Gordon was PM (hell or even Blair). Scottish independence from a Union led by two Scots?

  11. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trapper View Post
    Purely out of interest it would have been very interesting to see this entire debate when Gordon was PM (hell or even Blair). Scottish independence from a Union led by two Scots?
    Brown versus Salmond , I know what they would be suping anyway instead of water
    By the end of it only drunk Scottish people can understand the dribles.

  12. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trapper View Post
    It would be a powerful anti-Union message though. English Toff PM making an anti-Scottish can go it alone stance. However he would phrase the pro-Union argument it would come back to that.
    I dunno. "England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are all valuable members of the union. While each of them has a proud history that stands by itself, a united kingdom that plays to the strengths of all its members..." etc. etc.

  13. #101
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    Sadly Roberto there would be an attempt by the SNP to turn pro-Union into anti-Scottish as referenced above.

    My main beef with all of this is if Scotland leaves then there is no Great Britain as a political entity (yes we keep Union of the Crowns - until Queenie dies anyway) and henceforth no United Kingdom. This would in principle be a massive change for every British citizen. For a start would we still be "British" without Great Britain? It would have massive unforeseen impacts on our international relations - would we keep our seat at the UN Security council for example? A referendum of such scope to the entire political makeup of the country for the past 300 years should be open to all citizens.

  14. Thanks to Trapper from:

    witch (21st February 2014)

  15. #102


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroHour View Post
    I think you are reading my statement too literally, the point is scottish people had helped pay for x assets along with everyone else, we should be likewise entitled to a fair % of the asset too, I didnt specify how that would be worked out which yes could be based on GDP etc.
    Sorry was burning dinner so had to press enter and run!


    I'm not really sure how to take your post then as all of your previous posts had said the same thing;

    ...We paid for part of everything that makes up the uk and we are entitled to it, this is not a case of we have to buy our own everything because we are handing back all we have paid for before. Not sure how it can't work this way...
    As far as I can gather (someone correct me if I'm wrong):

    Immovable things which fall within Scotland's borders such as property and recourses become Scotland's
    Movable assets get shared by population/GDP
    Things like the Pound and EU membership remain the rUK's

    Therefore just because you have paid for something doesn't mean it's yours. The UK as a whole could argue it's "paid" for the oil fields...


    And to answer one of your previous questions, the reason why you can't find Salmond saying you won't take the debt is because it was Sturgeon who said it.

    UK parties 'ganging up' to bully Scots into rejecting independence, says SNP | Politics | theguardian.com

    [If Scotland doesn't get the pound...] This would be an absurd position for any Westminster government to be in. It would cost their own businesses hundreds of millions of pounds in transaction costs, it would blow a massive hole in their balance of payments, it would leave them having to pick up the entirety of UK debt.
    Last edited by j17sparky; 21st February 2014 at 12:51 AM.

  16. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatt View Post
    How does this work - I would be interested to know, since at the moment I cannot vote

    I could easily get to Scotland to cast a vote - just don't see how when I am not on the Electoral Role in Scotland
    I'm still on the Electoral Roll, I haven't emigrated, I'm just on a jaunt overseas

    @SYNACK I could possibly get a postal vote - ill need to look into it.

  17. #104

    TechMonkey's Avatar
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    Salmond not wanting to take any debt? from May last year. This why the Bank of England had to step in and take on responsibility for all debt as the markets were starting to go a bit mental over it and would have caused the UK problems and a new independent Scotland even more.

    The problem is you can't easily separate Salmond from an independent Scotland as he has been the leading figure and is the head of the campaign. He is the one making claims and trying to lay down the law about how things are going to be.

  18. Thanks to TechMonkey from:

    nephilim (21st February 2014)

  19. #105

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Just noticed something... Are all SNP people named after fish? :-D

    Its actually quite awesome.

    I apologise for my childishness.

  20. 2 Thanks to localzuk:

    Gatt (21st February 2014), happymeal (21st February 2014)

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