Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?

+ Post New Thread
Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 109
General Chat Thread, [POLL] Should Scotland be an independent country? in General; Originally Posted by ZeroHour Paxman really really did no favours although Salmond numbers a high but come on, calling him ...
  1. #61

    nephilim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Dunstable
    Posts
    11,913
    Thank Post
    1,626
    Thanked 1,892 Times in 1,406 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    428
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroHour View Post
    Paxman really really did no favours although Salmond numbers a high but come on, calling him Mugabe!
    Paxman is an embarrasement. He thinks he is high and mighty when in reality he is a misanthropic misogenistic douche (pardon the language)

  2. #62

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,680
    Thank Post
    516
    Thanked 2,451 Times in 1,897 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    832
    OK, hypothetical question. What if another random bit of the UK, let's say Devon, has a glut of natural resources (fracking gas). Should the government be handing that county evidence that they should become independent? Or, as the government of the UK did with Scotland, should it look at the benefits of the find for the whole country and focus on that?

    Why does mere geographic location of a resource mean that the people living near it should be the ones to gain, rather than the entire country which owns it?

    By highlighting historic North Sea oil, and getting upset about the fact that it wasn't directed to Scotland alone/wasn't highlighted as a Scottish thing to instil a desire to become independent, you are basically saying "screw the rest of the UK"... It makes me think that a lot of people are simply not understanding what being in a Union means - both the bad and the good.

    Should we not be thinking as a whole, rather than simply about our own little slice of life?
    Last edited by localzuk; 20th February 2014 at 05:28 PM.

  3. #63

    nephilim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Dunstable
    Posts
    11,913
    Thank Post
    1,626
    Thanked 1,892 Times in 1,406 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    428
    If Scotland starts, wont be long until Wales and Cornwall start, they've been trying for decades, but lacked the gumption to follow through, and this is going to set the tone in the long run.

  4. #64

    ZeroHour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    5,655
    Thank Post
    897
    Thanked 1,316 Times in 799 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    444
    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    OK, hypothetical question. What if another random bit of the UK, let's say Devon, has a glut of natural resources (fracking gas). Should the government be handing that county evidence that they should become independent? Or, as the government of the UK did with Scotland, should it look at the benefits of the find for the whole country and focus on that?

    Why does mere geographic location of a resource mean that the people living near it should be the ones to gain, rather than the entire country which owns it?

    By highlighting historic North Sea oil, and getting upset about the fact that it wasn't directed to Scotland alone/wasn't highlighted as a Scottish thing to instil a desire to become independent, you are basically saying "screw the rest of the UK"... It makes me think that a lot of people are simply not understanding what being in a Union means - both the bad and the good.
    I wasn't there when the last vote was but one of the reasons it failed was a lack of belief we could support ourselves, the government of the time (which serves all UK and the report was paid for by all of the UK) knew that this report could easily tip the balance. I think its wrong that the government classified it and I am actually surprised you support the stance "sshhh dont tell them", that report is a nail against the union, who is to say the gov is being honest this time? we will have to wait 30 years to find out (I dont think they are doing this again, I hope, but its part of the yes rhetoric although a small part).
    I think classifying the report was a farce and should never have happened.
    Last edited by ZeroHour; 20th February 2014 at 05:37 PM.

  5. #65

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,680
    Thank Post
    516
    Thanked 2,451 Times in 1,897 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    832
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroHour View Post
    I wasn't there when the last vote was but one of the reasons it failed was a lack of belief we could support ourselves, the government of the time (which serves all UK and the report was paid for by all of the UK) knew that this report could easily tip the balance. I think its wrong that the government classified it and I am actually surprised you support the stance "sshhh dont tell them", that report is a nail against the union, who is to say the gov is being honest this time? we will have to wait 30 years to find out.
    I think classifying the report was a farce and should never have happened.
    The government of the UK is there to support the continuing of the union. So, yes, they did the right thing in my view. The rest of the union would have been up in arms about them handing over things to encourage bits of the country to break away!

    If people want to break away, then they need to create reports themselves, they need to pay for it, they need to do the leg work - not expect the government to do it for them!

  6. #66

    ZeroHour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    5,655
    Thank Post
    897
    Thanked 1,316 Times in 799 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    444
    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    The government of the UK is there to support the continuing of the union. So, yes, they did the right thing in my view. The rest of the union would have been up in arms about them handing over things to encourage bits of the country to break away!

    If people want to break away, then they need to create reports themselves, they need to pay for it, they need to do the leg work - not expect the government to do it for them!
    So is it correct to lie basically? They knew the results of the report and claimed we couldnt support ourselves inspite of this, which is deceit and lying when you clearly know otherwise.
    I think its wrong for any politician to lie knowingly regardless of their aims. A certain war had high claims of cover up etc with reports hidden away, was that the correct action as well? rather than inform the uk which would result in the people saying no they knew best and went ahead anyway.
    You can't be angry about other times the gov has classified/covered up for the common good of the union and then say yeah they were correct to here, especially since you were not the one being fed the lies.

    That oil horse has bolted though, but no one should be saying it was correct to lie to your people as it was for the greater good.
    Last edited by ZeroHour; 20th February 2014 at 05:44 PM.

  7. #67

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,680
    Thank Post
    516
    Thanked 2,451 Times in 1,897 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    832
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroHour View Post
    So is it correct to lie basically? They knew the results of the report and claimed we couldnt support ourselves inspite of this, which is deceit and lying when you clearly know otherwise.
    I think its wrong for any politician to lie knowingly regardless of their aims. A certain war had high claims of cover up etc with reports hidden away, was that the correct action as well? rather than inform the uk which would result in the people saying no they knew best and went ahead anyway.
    You can't be angry about other times the gov has classified/covered up for the common good of the union and then say yeah they were correct to here, especially since you were not the one being fed the lies.

    That oil horse has bolted though, but no one should be saying it was correct to lie to your people as it was for the greater good.
    There's a big difference between justifying an invasion of a foreign country with lies, and trying to maintain your own country by withholding information.

  8. #68

    nephilim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Dunstable
    Posts
    11,913
    Thank Post
    1,626
    Thanked 1,892 Times in 1,406 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    428
    *grabs popcorn*

  9. #69

    Domino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Bromley
    Posts
    4,136
    Thank Post
    215
    Thanked 1,258 Times in 789 Posts
    Blog Entries
    4
    Rep Power
    507
    I like haggis

  10. #70

    Ric_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    7,593
    Thank Post
    109
    Thanked 764 Times in 595 Posts
    Rep Power
    181
    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    I like haggis
    But I don't want to have to pay import duties (and potentially currency exchange costs) in order to keep buying haggis

  11. #71

    Domino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Bromley
    Posts
    4,136
    Thank Post
    215
    Thanked 1,258 Times in 789 Posts
    Blog Entries
    4
    Rep Power
    507
    You're buying me haggis?

  12. #72

    Ric_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    7,593
    Thank Post
    109
    Thanked 764 Times in 595 Posts
    Rep Power
    181
    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    You're buying me haggis?
    Not if the price increases!

  13. #73

    ZeroHour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    5,655
    Thank Post
    897
    Thanked 1,316 Times in 799 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    444
    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    There's a big difference between justifying an invasion of a foreign country with lies, and trying to maintain your own country by withholding information.
    I suppose I just hold politicians to higher standards, lies are lies, both involved oil ironically.
    So any classified reports about the true state of the banks is fine, in fact any lies given its *for the good of the union* are okay too? Just lies involving wars are not?
    Why and where do you draw the line?
    MP's serve the people, lying is never the correct action and I think if politicians were more honest and upfront our political system would be far stronger and better unlike now where general feeling is very poor. When you lie to the people to suit your own aims (as a party especially) you are not serving the people, you are keeping them dumb and uninformed. You say we have all the good parts as well as the bad as part of the union, surely those arguments should have been enough to go for the union at the last vote, lying to 5m people though as the case for staying part of the union is wrong, make the case for staying part of the union better and remove the lie about the stats. Anything else looks like the union needed our oil more than an informed populace who could decide for themselves if we want to continue.
    If the Scottish Gov had a report classified I would be equally outraged, the people who are literally deciding, not the politicians, must be informed fully before voting regardless of it being in their interests of independence or not, facts are facts but by your logic its okay.
    Maybe we should vote yes to force through more honesty.

    EDIT: One regarding Fraking, what if there are reports covering up environmental impacts, what about reports saying flood defenses were a problem? Fraking is a big policy now *for the good of the union* so anything that says otherwise should be classified.
    Likewise I wonder if there are any reports claiming removing the pound would not be a good idea financially for the rUK, we wont know as long as lying/deceit is condoned. What if there is a report saying rUK would benefit greatly without Scotland, that naturally would have to be classified too.
    There should be no lying.
    Last edited by ZeroHour; 20th February 2014 at 06:45 PM.

  14. #74

    GREED's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Portsmouth
    Posts
    3,028
    Thank Post
    374
    Thanked 367 Times in 299 Posts
    Blog Entries
    8
    Rep Power
    176
    Where is the option to allow the Yes vote on the Thursday, count Friday, announce Saturday, celebrate (Scottish style!) Sunday, England invades Monday... Job done, Scotland goes back to pre William Wallace times

  15. #75

    DaveP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Can't talk now: The mother-ship is calling!
    Posts
    8,878
    Thank Post
    351
    Thanked 1,286 Times in 878 Posts
    Blog Entries
    4
    Rep Power
    1128
    I have now setup the parallel poll on SurveyMapper [mentioned earlier in this thread]

    It is open to anyone on the web to answer. When answers are logged the system will ask respondents where they are. The system will then plot the responses geographically.

    Link: Removed: Please see my later post.

    I have set up the poll to match the Edugeek poll with the exception of the poll closing date [I have set this to be the date before the day of polling in Scotland]
    Last edited by DaveP; 20th February 2014 at 07:06 PM. Reason: Remove URL and redirect users to new poll.

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 14
    Last Post: 5th December 2011, 01:25 PM
  2. Should't be my problem but it is !!!
    By MattCowen in forum Windows
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 17th January 2008, 01:09 PM
  3. What server spec should i be looking for?
    By tosca925 in forum Thin Client and Virtual Machines
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 19th March 2007, 08:29 AM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •