Not sure of the relevance of your question @localzuk my work is here but am sure at some point I will be returning home probably when I retire in 5 years time.
And you'd be moving back there too then it you could vote?
Also, we are currently, by law, one country, so I think we should ALL get to vote on whether Scotland should leave the UK or not @ButterflyMoon - I would be interested to hear what you think Scotland should do about a currency, membership of the EU and shouldering their portion of the national debt. Alec Salmond really doesn't seem to know.
Last edited by witch; 19th February 2014 at 07:52 PM.
I totally agree that England should have their own assembly/parliament same as the other countries in the union have. You are right @witch the southern areas are also ignored. There are huge tracts of this united land that are ignored in favour of the home counties and London. I suppose my question is why has this been allowed to happen. To answer as best I can your questions I think Scotland could have it's own currency, why not, there are many places just now in England where our notes are not accepted in shops etc. make it a proper Scots Currency with exchange rates etc. Probably far fetched I grant you. On a personal level I would like us out of the EU I think we all (the whole of the UK) suffer for being members of it. I have no idea about the national debt but would like to think that a fair share would be paid towards it. I may well be slated for all this but am not a political person just giving what I think are reasonable answers.
Last edited by ButterflyMoon; 19th February 2014 at 08:05 PM.
witch (19th February 2014)
The reason a lot of shops down here don't accept Scottish notes (or Northern Irish for that matter) is that they have a *much* higher counterfeiting level (Eg. in 2005 4455 Scottish £5 notes were removed from circulation, compared with 6000 English £5 notes. When you consider the difference in volumes of notes in circulation, that is a massive difference.).
With regards the EU discussion, I'd urge you to do some proper research on the value of being in the EU rather than going on what the media seem to be saying all the time. The UK doesn't suffer *at all* from being in the EU - we make a heck of a lot of money being a part of it, and the thought of not being part of it has already lead to a lot of businesses saying they would leave our country if we left it.
Scotland would suffer the same problem if it were to leave the UK. Large businesses with their homes there have already indicated that an independent Scotland would not be a home for them. Companies such as RBS.
The debt that Scotland would be expected to take on would be considerable, somewhere around £153bn if you were to go by population. Which, when you consider the GDP of Scotland is around £129bn, would put Scotland in a very bad position. If Scotland refuses to take on the debt, then credit agencies around the world have indicated they would take this as an indication that Scotland couldn't be trusted with its financial obligations and therefore give them a poor credit rating.
So, thinking Scotland could do a good job is a bad idea - unless there is a very thorough plan in place to ensure the country can survive properly. Something which is very much missing at present!
Last edited by localzuk; 19th February 2014 at 08:34 PM.
I don't think they will be better off for it myself if that is how they go with their referendum and get their independence from the union. I will say also I am not against anyone wanting to leave it if that's the genuine will of the majority of a nations people (I personally don't think that a vote where you have a turnout of 20+% of a population is any sort of majority to win anything really and with the way voting has gone, that needs addressing a lot more I think than anything else when it comes to political will of the people, if you case a vote at the moment, its very little in the way of difference in government that is going to happen, but thats for another thread I think), I feel that the existing union has existed and served us all OK for a long time now too and I am saying that as a Welshman here. I do not fully get what seems to me to be the need to cast aside that union for what does seem at times like a bit of a half-baked concept that's trying to be pushed through urgently, especially as it could have quite damaging implications for a county and its people, there is nothing wrong with them delaying here and ironing out all of this stuff to give everyone a better idea of how it would go if Scotland does decide to go it alone, especially if as I think "if its going to happen it will happen" no matter if you agree or disagree with it.
I tend to think also pretty much what has previously been said, at it seems now, its not going to be a clean break and I don't think they can really cherry pick and choose what revenues to take if they do vote that way, especially so I believe as no doubt there would be existing contracts in place for a lot of things that are still central government based at this time and there is also a lot of undecided stuff like currency/military(NATO too)/Health Services which need a lot more discussion and debate on before making any decisions I think as I do not wholly understand a lot of the politicking about some of these issues, but it seems that the SNP want to rush through this debate to a vote while they have drummed up a bit of interest, which I think can only be a bit harmful for what their trying to achieve in the long run, though we all know that a vote can go either way when it hits the ballots.
Spain are bound to oppose any split though, based on what has been going on in the Basque movement with them over the years, thats a given.
I think overall I find myself just sitting back waiting to see what will unfold with this issue, its an interesting time for our countries tied histories here overall I think.
Seems to me salmon wanted a straight Yes/No vote to keep it simple and focussed on the central issue. Fine, he got that. So no should be in and Yes should be out, All Out. There should be no more ties than we have with Australia or Canada, may be less. If they manage to secure EU membership then no more ties than France or Germany.
If there is a No vote the scots will still keep pressuring for more and more devolution. Personally I wish they would stay, I also think that there should be core issues that are decided in Westminster (like Defence, serious crime etc) by all 4 UK nations and then All 4 should have their own assembly to decide the rest. Why should scots have a vote on what the rest of us pay in taxes, or what level of healthcare we get when a welsh voter say, has no influence on those issues in Scotland. In a coallition government they can easily swing things to favour Scotland. Vote for higher taxes, to make living in Scotland look more attractive. higher business rates then reduce their own to attract jobs. There is a genuine conflict of interest in the present system that the scots are free to take advantage of that no one seems to be talking about. I really don't like the present system anymore. The scots make uncomfortable bed-fellows. I think the only way forward is to give them 100% independence. Once and for all. They may well prosper. They have the same population as Norway and they have one of the highest standards of living in world. Both countries have access to north sea oil and fisheries. But Scotland has a much more developed tourist industry. They should do well. They don't need us. Let them go and make their own way. But keeping the pound would mean that if it didn't work out we may well have to prop up the pound to keep Scotland from dragging us down with them. There is no upside to this. If their economy thrives it's too small to give us any real benefit. 4 million people to our 66 Million. They would keep any proceeds. Why should the English, the Welsh and the Irish underwrite that risk? For all Mr salmon's rhetoric on how well an independent Scotland will do, his stance on the pound gives the game away. If he really believed his own propaganda he wouldn't care about the pound.
The SNP did want a third option - DevoMax. Honestly the last thing the SNP wanted was a straight yes/no referendum. DevoMax would have passed by a large popular margin it was rUK political parties that forced the straight in/out.
Last edited by Trapper; 20th February 2014 at 04:56 AM.
I am just watching this thread letting you all vent your views before I deal with some mistakes in thinking
I live in Scotland so I will be voting but it appears I may be the only one here?
EDIT: All involved please try and post links when quoting statistics.
Last edited by ZeroHour; 20th February 2014 at 02:58 AM.
Im flying back for the 14th to cast my YES vote.
I may not live there currently, but I want to think that any kids I have, whether born here or in Scotland, will have a country to be proud of. Not one dictated upon from a city in another country.
ButterflyMoon (20th February 2014)
I now live in England - will have done for 10 years this year!
However, even though I agree with what you've said about having a country to be proud of - I already do - I am proud of Scotland and to be Scottish, but I am equally proud to be British and of the UK..
Therefore, if I had a chance to vote, I would be voting NO. Scotland currently has the best of both worlds with being part of the UK, without breaking away. We are already part of NATO and the EU - with all the exemptions already in place, we already have a seat at the top table (as the SNP put it). We already enjoy a stable currency through the Pound Sterling. (though I wish the Scottish [and the NI] bank notes were more acceptable to the rUK).
Whilst I cannot predict the future, I strongly feel that a YES vote would be seriously detrimental to Scotland. If it could be guaranteed that we could keep GBP, stay in the EU with all the rights we currently have, etc then maybe I could have been swain.
But, in the here and now, that is looking highly unlikely to happen - the SNP want to get rid of Faslane and the Holy Loch naval bases -This threatens member ship with NATO (though like I said before - I need to do some reading on NATO)
The rUK has said that the chances of keeping the GBP as it is now, are very very slim - in fact the BoE Governor himself has stated concerns about how it could work and what Scotland would need to concede in order for it to even have a chance of working.
This pipe dream of being able to rejoin the EU as an independent nation with all the trimming that we currently have as part of the UK - is looking slimmer and slimmer, with some very top people saying that it cannot happen, not to mention the likes of Spain who are strongly suspected to veto the application - Didn't they do this with Kosovo who are still trying to gain EU membership. Spain are unlikely to accept a new independent nation when it is trying to prevent Catalonia and Basque regions from doing the same.
I love Scotland, my wife (English) loves Scotland (especially the scenery and climbing it's mountains) - and we always will. Hell we've been thinking about moving back up there, but not until we know the outcome of the referendum... If its a YES then we may not be that willing to move
*Bootnote: all this is IMHO*
If Scotland does become independent...anyone want to take bets on how long before the US threat to invade and give it a proper democracy in return for its oil?
RabbieBurns (21st February 2014)
ZeroHour (20th February 2014)
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