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General Chat Thread, Hashcoin - potential advanced Bitcoin replacement - thoughts? in General; Originally Posted by Sdrawkcab Also does anybody else think it looks a bit suspicious that Skytower seems to have registered ...
  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sdrawkcab View Post
    Also does anybody else think it looks a bit suspicious that Skytower seems to have registered on here specifically to shill hashcoin?
    Extremely; I don't think I've ever seen anybody get so excited over a company's new website before.

    As for cryptocurrency, it's easy to get caught up in all the hype and I must admit I'm mighty jealous of those early BC adopters who put in very little for huge returns, but you might as well look at them as lottery winners, their chances of such huge returns were almost as slim as that jackpot win. If you've got money burning a hole in your pocket, chuck some at it; just don't expect to get it back (if you do, bonus!)

  2. #17

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    Just read this gem on the hashcoin project...

    • Fewer risks for merchants - Hashcoin transactions are secure, irreversible, and do not contain customers' sensitive or personal information. This protects merchants from losses caused by fraud or fraudulent chargebacks, and there is no need for PCI compliance.
    Well if they were using hashcoin cards, then they'd need PCI compliance, so thats a fallacy right there. Transactions being irreversable, also a bad thing, because once the merchant has the money, and you dont receive your item, you've lost your money and you're fudged.

    What are the disadvantages of Hashcoin?
    • Degree of acceptance - Many people will remain unaware of Hashcoin. Every day, more businesses will accept hashcoins because they want the advantages of doing so, but the list will remain small at the outset and will need to grow in order to benefit from network effects.
    Uhhh...well if the growth doesn't happen, you have a very small and finite amount of businesses accepting it, and people will be unhappy to say the least as you billed it as the next bitcoin.

    Also it is going on about being mathematically secure, and wont lose out to anything as it isn't tied to gold or silver. No, it is tied to maths because being tied to an actual tangible resource is apparently bad! Hmmm.

  3. #18
    Sdrawkcab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    As for cryptocurrency, it's easy to get caught up in all the hype and I must admit I'm mighty jealous of those early BC adopters who put in very little for huge returns, but you might as well look at them as lottery winners, their chances of such huge returns were almost as slim as that jackpot win. If you've got money burning a hole in your pocket, chuck some at it; just don't expect to get it back (if you do, bonus!)
    Honestly at this point you're probably better off just playing the fruit machine in your local pub. At least that way you're guaranteed to get at least 87% of your money back.

    No actual brick-and-mortar store will seriously accept any crypto because of the ludicrously huge delay on the transactions. Unfortunately, this is a problem which affects all cryptocurrencies because of the way they generate new tokens/coins/whatever. The transaction cannot be verified until it is mined into a block, and this happens once every 10-30 minutes. Oh yeah, and it might take longer than that if you didn't put any fees in with your transactions because most mining pools will prioritize transactions based on the fees attached to them (which is why it is so hilarious that people tout "no fees!!!!" as an upside to cryptocurrencies).

    Hashcoin is a pump-and-dump scam like all the others.

  4. #19


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sdrawkcab View Post
    Also does anybody else think it looks a bit suspicious that Skytower seems to have registered on here specifically to shill hashcoin?
    Definitely. It's almost as if Hashcoin shills are Googling it and signing up to places discussing it to promote it. I wonder what would have happened if this thread was BTRD?
    Or maybe I'm just being cynical.

    I'm currently sat on 10.5k (10,400-and-something to be precise) Dogecoin and I'm neither here-nor-there about continuing. I mined Monday and yesterday to breach the 10k mark and I succeeded on Monday. Yesterday I come home from work to find I've found 166 blocks, but gained zero Doge from it. Checked my wallet address was correct, it was, and there's no way that all those blocks were orphaned. Rather dubious, methinks, so I may just sit on what I have and cash out if it rises (just like everyone else mining Crypto's right now)

    I can't ever see crypto's replacing current 'real-world' currencies (Although, in all fairness, 'real-world' money is the same as cryptocurrency in the sense of 'they are tokens and worth only what people are willing to exchange them for', but there's much more of an agreed census on 'what people are willing to exchange them for' with pounds and pennies) - but I will admit the Cryptocurrency experiment was an interesting one. I'm sure someone, somewhere, will be able to come up with a more valuable use for the combined hashing power of thousands of isolated machines - it's just making it appealing that's the issue.

    I personally see mining crypto's akin to gambling. Do not invest any substantial amount of money in it. Any money you do invest (be that exchanging it into casino chips or simply using more electric than usual) consider it 'lost' from the get-go. You no longer have that money. It's gone. That way if you make a return on it, great! If you don't, happens, at least you didn't spend more than you were financially able to.
    Last edited by Garacesh; 26th February 2014 at 03:32 PM.

  5. #20

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    I day traded BTC and LTC for a while, made a sizeable profit too. The last occasion I woke up the next morning to be several hundred in loss! If I can lose the best part of 1000 euro profit by sleeping then that currency will never replace fiat.

    Sold out for an overall loss of approx 300 euros once I saw the Gox farce brewing.
    I now trade on AIM, yes I realise thats like jumping from the frying pan into a very hot bath, but its slightly less risky!

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sdrawkcab View Post
    Who is actually making those transactions though? Bitcoin addresses aren't linked to actual real people, which is why the protocol is a criminals wet dream. Money laundering has never been easier - now you can do it algorithmically! Get scammed? Too bad, no chargebacks! Someone break into your wallet? Oh that's too bad, now all your bitcoins are gone!
    Sounds a lot like cash to me. Presumably, just as we don't hide our savings under our pillows or actively carry them around with us, sensible people keep their BTC stash in secure offline wallets instead. I'm not saying that's the perfect solution, but there are much better options than leaving them on your PC and hoping nothing bad happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sdrawkcab View Post
    Are you actually serious? Look at the rate of inflation for Bitcoin between January and December 2013 and then compare it to the rate of inflation for the pound in that time. They are vastly different. It's not really fair to compare what you'd call hyperinflation for real money with the inflation experienced by bitcoin, since bitcoin is orders of magnitude more unstable than any real currency.
    I hate to be that guy, but between January and December, Bitcoin showed hyperdeflation rather than hyperinflation, caused by high demand and restricted supply. With inflation the money you have loses value, and you can buy less with the same amount of currency over time. Bitcoin showed exactly the opposite of that.

    For what its worth, Bitcoin looks like it's starting to rise again after the Mt. Gox fiasco. It's in uncharted territory, so there are bound to be bumps in the road and obstacles to manoeuvre. It's nowhere near mature, but it's growing up fast.

  7. #22
    Sdrawkcab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driftingashore View Post
    Sounds a lot like cash to me. Presumably, just as we don't hide our savings under our pillows or actively carry them around with us, sensible people keep their BTC stash in secure offline wallets instead. I'm not saying that's the perfect solution, but there are much better options than leaving them on your PC and hoping nothing bad happens.
    But then spending them is nearly impossible. For a currency to work, you have to spend it.


    I hate to be that guy, but between January and December, Bitcoin showed hyperdeflation rather than hyperinflation, caused by high demand and restricted supply. With inflation the money you have loses value, and you can buy less with the same amount of currency over time. Bitcoin showed exactly the opposite of that.
    You are 100% correct, but if you think this is a good idea you clearly have no idea how money works. Having a deflationary, scarce, currency is an awful idea. Its the same reason we don't have gold coins anymore.

    For what its worth, Bitcoin looks like it's starting to rise again after the Mt. Gox fiasco. It's in uncharted territory, so there are bound to be bumps in the road and obstacles to manoeuvre. It's nowhere near mature, but it's growing up fast.
    Over 2 weeks, sure. Give it a year or two and I don't think you'll be saying that.

    Don't you think its odd that everyone only refers to the value of Cryptos by how much they are worth in real money? Nobody ever talks about what you can actually buy with them unless its drugs, and even then most Tor drugs marketplaces tied their prices to USD anyway.

    Edit:
    Last edited by Sdrawkcab; 26th February 2014 at 07:36 PM.

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garacesh
    Definitely. It's almost as if Hashcoin shills are Googling it and signing up to places discussing it to promote it. I wonder what would have happened if this thread was BTRD?
    Or maybe I'm just being cynical.
    I thought about doing so, however i thought as the topic was sparked by a public page, and that there isn't really anything personal or private in it, that it would be more suited to General. my bad if I was wrong. However If someone does want to join in from Hashcoin themselves, then all the more for it, that would make for an interesting spin to the conversation!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sdrawkcab View Post
    But then spending them is nearly impossible. For a currency to work, you have to spend it.

    Don't you think its odd that everyone only refers to the value of Cryptos by how much they are worth in real money? Nobody ever talks about what you can actually buy with them unless its drugs, and even then most Tor drugs marketplaces tied their prices to USD anyway.
    I find that an interesting concept - what would you compare a new type of currency to other than currencies that are currently being used? what would you use to show it's value? and how would you convince others that it's a good idea to use this new type of currency other than comparing it to another, other than trying to be as safe and reliable as possible?

    With regards to someone's "Wallet" being stolen, I feel that this is no different to real life. If you left your front door unlocked whilst you went out in the back garden for a few minutes, and someone walks into your home and steals it, you have lost the funds stored there with no real hope for it being returned, exactly the same with physical currency.

    I do agree that for the past little while, crypto currencies have been fairly unsteady, but is that not the same as purchasing shares in a company? or buying some other material with value?

    Also - for those reading still interested in the mtgox issue - their homepage has a new message posted today.
    Last edited by koryo; 26th February 2014 at 08:17 PM. Reason: removing image

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sdrawkcab View Post
    But then spending them is nearly impossible. For a currency to work, you have to spend it.

    You are 100% correct, but if you think this is a good idea you clearly have no idea how money works. Having a deflationary, scarce, currency is an awful idea. Its the same reason we don't have gold coins anymore.

    Over 2 weeks, sure. Give it a year or two and I don't think you'll be saying that.

    Don't you think its odd that everyone only refers to the value of Cryptos by how much they are worth in real money? Nobody ever talks about what you can actually buy with them unless its drugs, and even then most Tor drugs marketplaces tied their prices to USD anyway.
    Personally, I don't find it odd at all, and that links into something you mentioned earlier about spending them being nearly impossible. Until a coin's user base is fully developed, there are obviously going to be issues about using the coins in the real world. We're talking very early years for crypto currency, and major stores aren't going to jump for something that's hardly going to be used. The coin has to make it into the hands of the masses and stabilise somewhat in value first, which will take a very long time in the case of Bitcoin. Anyway, if you don't have any foreign currency, you go buy some at an exchange. Cryptos are no different, and it seems obvious that you'd talk about their value in "real" money when you're exchanging real money to buy into them.

    The scarcity of the coin isn't really much of an issue seeing as they can be split to eight decimal places. The value of 1BTC is currently in the hundreds, but you can still send payments of pennies. The current minimum cap is something like 0.00005000 and was put in place to help prevent millions of microtransactions from bogging down the network. It's worth just under two pence at current values, and if it was needed and the value of BTC was to rise again significantly, that limit could be removed.

    Frankly, we have no idea exactly how the deflationary aspect of BTC would affect its value in the long term, as currently its price is so unstable and hasn't found its base value by a long shot. If the rates of deflation were low it may not affect value enough to make hoarding worthwhile, and if it ever became a real problem, the devs could have more be mined. The current price variance isn't much to do with the coin's ultimate deflationary nature (as if its price were stable it should be inflationary right now - more coins are being mined daily) but market forces.

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    So-called "digital currency" is at best a bubble and at worst a scam. Somehow your financial future is more secure if you entrust it to some guy who says his digital magic beans are somehow more valuable than everyone else's magic beans.

    If you're lucky and get in at the right level you might strike it lucky. You know, if you bet on the right brand of snake-oil. I mean there are people out there who 'made' money on bitcoins and managed to turn it back into real money during a high, right? On the other hand, it reminds me greatly of the old saying: "if you can't tell who the sucker at the card table is..."

    Yeah, I'll get right on that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberto View Post
    So-called "digital currency" is at best a bubble and at worst a scam. Somehow your financial future is more secure if you entrust it to some guy who says his digital magic beans are somehow more valuable than everyone else's magic beans.

    If you're lucky and get in at the right level you might strike it lucky. You know, if you bet on the right brand of snake-oil. I mean there are people out there who 'made' money on bitcoins and managed to turn it back into real money during a high, right? On the other hand, it reminds me greatly of the old saying: "if you can't tell who the sucker at the card table is..."

    Yeah, I'll get right on that.
    Strangely enough, I tend to agree - especially when it comes to alt coins. As an investment strategy, unless you have money to burn, it's about as risky as it gets. The best way to do it is mine/buy in early, but I wouldn't bother with most of the clones. However, I <3 the Doge community and should the coin collapse, I'm not going to cry over my 4 loss. To the moon! *ahem*

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Driftingashore View Post
    Strangely enough, I tend to agree - especially when it comes to alt coins. As an investment strategy, unless you have money to burn, it's about as risky as it gets. The best way to do it is mine/buy in early, but I wouldn't bother with most of the clones. However, I <3 the Doge community and should the coin collapse, I'm not going to cry over my 4 loss. To the moon! *ahem*
    Fair enough. You're essentially laying down a 4 bet rather than investing 100s like some people have done. I think we all know which one of those scenarios is most likely to end in tears.

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    Quote Originally Posted by koryo View Post
    I thought about doing so, however i thought as the topic was sparked by a public page, and that there isn't really anything personal or private in it, that it would be more suited to General. my bad if I was wrong. However If someone does want to join in from Hashcoin themselves, then all the more for it, that would make for an interesting spin to the conversation!
    Indeed! I'm not sure what the motivation behind the hashcoin shill is, but if s/he's one of the devs for it then just step up, say it, and join in the discussion as a dev. We're not thick, we can tell when people sign up to promote an agenda. If you're not a dev, what's your motivation? Unaffiliated but just been paid to promote, or are you involved in some manner? Just an Average-Joe miner trying to stir up hype in hopes of raising value?

    Wouldn't say you were 'wrong' posting it in general. It was me sarcastically being cynical and saying he wouldn't have found this thread if it was BTRD (as BTRD isn't indexed on search engines)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberto View Post
    Fair enough. You're essentially laying down a 4 bet rather than investing 100s like some people have done. I think we all know which one of those scenarios is most likely to end in tears.
    That's pretty much how I see it. Instead of buying a lottery ticket (also a waste of money, but that's another story), I bought some Doge. At least with cryptos you get to play around with trading and the markets. I could cash out right now double my money, but I'd rather continue the gamble, play the markets, and hope Doge continues to grow. It's certainly more fun than playing the lottery.

    People investing more than they can afford to lose isn't unique to Bitcoin (or any crypto), but arguably, most of the people that lost massive amounts of BTC at Gox didn't invest anywhere near as much as they "lost" in the collapse to get it - especially those that mined or got in early, who are the people with the most BTC to lose. I could have invested 20 18 months ago and "lost" thousands when Gox failed. I don't think you'll see many from the BTC community wandering homeless on the streets.
    Last edited by Driftingashore; 27th February 2014 at 09:18 AM.

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    nephilim's Avatar
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    I got 5000 doge coins for 1 (before the doge coin donated to the jamaican winter olympics) and it was pretty constant, gained a penny here, lost a penny there, nothing bad about that. After the winter olympics donations, my dogecoins went up to a value of 5. Not much I grant you but thats still a nice increase none the less. I will leave the doge coins simply for the fact that I paid 1 for them, so it is no big loss. If they make it big, wahey! if not, such is life.

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