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General Chat Thread, The Big Benefits Row in General; Originally Posted by alexbillbridgnorth Explain why Steven Hawking can go on and do great things and work all his life ...
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    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbillbridgnorth View Post
    Explain why Steven Hawking can go on and do great things and work all his life but these other people can't, even when your severely disabled if he can do it so can MOST people, it's whether or not you choose to!
    That is an utterly ridiculous statement. Stephen Hawking is a genius, not your average Joe Bloggs. He was extremely successful even before he became seriously ill.

    A better (albeit potentially very sad) question would be, would he have been given the opportunities to get where he is today if he had fallen ill before his genius was realised? I suspect not.

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    gmj
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    6 pages in and no one as of yet has mentioned Nazis. I am disappoint.

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    No what you just said is a ridiculous statement! Why wouldn't he of done aswell just because he's disabled I could name 100's of people names who are disabled at birth and achieved amazing things in their life, it's not luck, that isn't the way disabled people get far it's about them pushing themselves to prove to other people they can do well and eventually turn successful! If Stephen Hawkin was born with this disease and still followed the same path he did, he would have got just as far as he did now. Everybody has equal opportunities whether your disabled, white or black it doesn't matter nothing will stop those determined people getting where they want to be as I say it's those people who are on benefits with the can't be arsed attitude that I dislike.
    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    That is an utterly ridiculous statement. Stephen Hawking is a genius, not your average Joe Bloggs. He was extremely successful even before he became seriously ill.

    A better (albeit potentially very sad) question would be, would he have been given the opportunities to get where he is today if he had fallen ill before his genius was realised? I suspect not.
    Edit: And one more thing in Stephens career he was well and then discovered he had the problems he does at 20 but now he's still at work a prime example of somebody that has been well got extremely poorly and still carried on and pursued a career thus proving not many people have a leg to stand on when they say I have a back problem and now can't go to work so I'm going to stay on benefits.
    Last edited by abillybob; 4th February 2014 at 03:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbillbridgnorth View Post
    No what you just said is a ridiculous statement! Why wouldn't he of done aswell just because he's disabled I could name 100's of people names who are disabled at birth and achieved amazing things in their life, it's not luck, that isn't the way disabled people get far it's about them pushing themselves to prove to other people they can do well and eventually turn successful! If Stephen Hawkin was born with this disease and still followed the same path he did, he would have got just as far as he did now. Everybody has equal opportunities whether your disabled, white or black it doesn't matter nothing will stop those determined people getting where they want to be as I say it's those people who are on benefits with the can't be arsed attitude that I dislike.
    How would he have done that, exactly, without complex and expensive machinery to enable him to communicate with the world? Because he sure as hell wouldn't have gotten that on benefits...

    This idea that everyone is equal is a farce. I totally agree that you will get much further in life if you try hard but that doesn't mean everyone can do everything.

    Everyone should be treated equally, that's true. But we aren't all capable of becoming world class athletes and scholars.
    Last edited by LosOjos; 4th February 2014 at 03:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmj View Post
    6 pages in and no one as of yet has mentioned Nazis. I am disappoint.
    i don't think the Nazi's are claiming benefits

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    Ugh I give up.
    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    How would he have done that, exactly, without complex and expensive machinery to enable him to communicate with the world? Because he sure as hell wouldn't have gotten that on benefits...

    This idea that everyone is equal is a farce. I totally agree that you will get much further in life if you try hard but that doesn't mean everyone can do everything.

    Everyone should be treated equally, that's true. But we aren't all capable of becoming world class athletes and scholars.

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    LosOjos's Avatar
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    @alexbillbridgnorth - you cannot seriously believe that because Stephen Hawking didn't choose to stop pursuing his career as a world leading theoretical physicist when he found out that he had a motor neurone disease that every single person of every type of background and all kinds of disabilities should be put out to work, can you?

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    Ok how about John let's use him as an example if that's more to your liking rather than the EXAMPLE I was using with Stephen Hawking as everyone knows him. John is a person in Bridgnorth who works for Mark & Spencers every day almost he's much loved by the community and is disabled, bound to a wheelchair and has neurological problems that won't allow him to think properly if he's capable of getting up for work then why can't your average Joe who's got a bad back. It's interesting you say from every background because this is true I find people are less likely to work and pursue a career if their parents didn't! As I say doesn't matter if you're disabled, black or white you have the same opportunities as the next person its whether or not you can be bothered to get a job!
    Last edited by abillybob; 4th February 2014 at 04:11 PM.

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    gmj
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    i don't think the Nazi's are claiming benefits
    Guess not...they take them by force

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garacesh View Post
    Oh, get out of it @Earthling. A 'deal with it' response would have been acceptable had I said 'That's insulting, that means you're not allowed to say it', but I didn't, did I? In fact, I even mentioned that you raised a valid point at one stage. What I did, was explain maturely why it was insulting, because you're making an assumption on my character that's entirely inaccurate (the character of the others, too, but I can't speak on their behalf).

    With a response like that, you're now just being petty and childish rather than adding to the discussion.



    You have the right to say something that's insulting. I have the right to respond to it. Neither one of our rights takes away the others'. "Deal with it" is selfish justification for self-centred behaviour.
    I don't consider it to have been insulting. I stand by what I said, that most of the reactions and posts have been of the 'How does he/she get a 50/60/70 inch TV, the full Sky Package and <designer label> trainers on benefits while I work hard and can't have any of those things'.

    Petty jealousies.

    I've dealt with mine.............

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    You can consider your post whatever you like, I'm still allowed to consider it insulting and retort as I saw fit. None of this validates a 'deal with it' response.

    I may have pointed out that I've seen people on the dole with the $LatestItem, but never in a jealous sense (for a start, I don't like iPhone's, wear trainers, or watch TV!), merely as an example of how the funds are being misused. Does pointing out a valid example make me jealous, now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbillbridgnorth View Post
    Ok how about John let's use him as an example if that's more to your liking rather than the EXAMPLE I was using with Stephen Hawking as everyone knows him. John is a person in Bridgnorth who works for Mark & Spencers every day almost he's much loved by the community and is disabled, bound to a wheelchair and has neurological problems that won't allow him to think properly if he's capable of getting up for work then why can't your average Joe who's got a bad back. It's interesting you say from every background because this is true I find people are less likely to work and pursue a career if their parents didn't! As I say doesn't matter if you're disabled, black or white you have the same opportunities as the next person its whether or not you can be bothered to get a job!
    You are right! but it doesn't answer two important questions - where are the jobs? and should we punish those who better manage their finances for the crimes of those who don't?

    It's nothing to do with gender, disability, race, or anything else. It's not even a benefits problem per se.

    There's not enough jobs to go around - and you shouldn't punish those who want to work but can't becuase of those who could work but won't.
    Last edited by tmcd35; 4th February 2014 at 04:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbillbridgnorth View Post
    Ok how about John let's use him as an example if that's more to your liking rather than the EXAMPLE I was using with Stephen Hawking as everyone knows him. John is a person in Bridgnorth who works for Mark & Spencers every day almost he's much loved by the community and is disabled, bound to a wheelchair and has neurological problems that won't allow him to think properly if he's capable of getting up for work then why can't your average Joe who's got a bad back. It's interesting you say from every background because this is true I find people are less likely to work and pursue a career if their parents didn't! As I say doesn't matter if you're disabled, black or white you have the same opportunities as the next person!
    OK, I accept that Stephen Hawking was just an example but it was a really bad example.

    Like I have said, there are people who game the system there's no denying that but do your research (and I don't mean in the tabloids) - official figures estimate just 1% of the total benefits budget is lost to fraud. One percent. What irritates me whenever this conversation comes up is that far too many people tar all benefit claimants with the "scrounger" brush when those that are defrauding the system make up a tiny minority of claimants.

    My point is, you cannot punish the 99% of honest benefits claimants just because 1% are taking advantage. To be honest, I think 1% is pretty good!

    There are much bigger problems in this country but benefit fraud is an easy scape goat that can be wheeled out to give the masses a common enemy while they ignore the bigger picture. The government must have thought Christmas had come early when "Benefits Street" hit the screen.
    Last edited by LosOjos; 4th February 2014 at 04:18 PM.

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    I am staggered at how many supposedly intelligent people have swallowed Government hype designed to socially engineer support to take money from the vulnerable in society. I am fed up with the "I know this bloke right... He drive a roller and he's on the dole". It's hear say and supposition. Say what you like, there are many vulnerable people , you pass in the street every day who are not smoking, drinking, watching sky sports who are truely suffering under these measures.

    The ATOS Tests are a disgrace. If you can walk across a room you can work. Who would hire someone who can't walk from the bus stop? And if they walk across a room have to sit down for 20 minutes puffing and panting... Walking 20 paces is quite different to a days work.

    Society is judged by how it treats the vulnerable, I have seen the other side of a lot of people here and it saddens me greatly. Not only by their lack of compassion but even more so that they are prepared villify the vulnerable without getting themselves properly informed. Volunteer at food bank for a couple of months, meet a spectrum of the people you are talking about. Then post again and give me some quantitive evidence that the level of cuts is justified and there are adequate safeguards in place and I add rep to every post you've ever made.

  17. 3 Thanks to GeekyPete:

    Earthling (5th February 2014), LosOjos (4th February 2014), tmcd35 (4th February 2014)

  18. #90

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    No I totally agree with you here. But while on benefits it should be moderated on what things these people are buying with them they should only need the essentials and if they have money left over then they are getting too much. My mum who also works for a school as a business manager had a job going for a caretaker and found that only 1 person applied, in a economy where there aren't much jobs it seems there aren't much people willing to hunt for the jobs either.
    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    You are right! but it doesn't amswer two important questions - where are the jobs? and should we punish those who better manage their finances for the crimes of those who don't?

    It's nothing to do with gender, disability, race, or anything else. It's not even a benefits problem per se.

    There's not enough jobs to go around - and you shouldn't punish those who want to work but can't becuase of those who could work but won't.



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