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General Chat Thread, The Big Benefits Row in General; i honestly dont know how people can be on the dole as a "career" when i was out of uni ...
  1. #46


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    i honestly dont know how people can be on the dole as a "career" when i was out of uni and took my over a year to find a job and i was on dole it just drove me mad the fact that my days consisted of nothing i literally had no idea what to do with myself because apart from going to the jobcentre once a week (and the odd time they sent me on teambuilding courses yes while youre unemployed why not go to hatfield marnia and build a boat from oil drums and logs) i had no structure to my life and it was driving me up the wall

  2. #47
    cpjitservices's Avatar
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    To me having a job isn't the fact that I'm earning my money, I'm giving and showing my children a better future, leading by example. Having a job sets you free, fills you full of confidence and shows you how the real world works, dont get me wrong some people who are on benefits are on them for a reason and they arn't abusing it... but those who are - are just utter morons nothing less. Especially, when they think that going to work they loose out on time with there families and kids... which I can understand... but it's not a reason for not working.

  3. #48

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpjitservices View Post
    SO tell me.... What can I sacrifice to own a car ??????
    Honestly, haven't got the fogiest. But then it's not my place to tell you how you should live your life - and the government certainly shouldn't be allowed to wield that much power.

    He Sacrifices nothing at all.
    I doubt that's true. But then I don't know the guy - who am I to judge?

    EDIT: re-read the last paragraph, although it appears he might not sacrafice personally - it looks like his wife and kids are. Maybe there is something else to be said/done there? again a social not a (monatory) welfare problem.

    he gets more benefits a month than I get paid wages.
    Now this I do believe. But then I never said the system wasn't broke. But then no system is perfect. Back in my first post I suggested we take the conversation away from the personal (knee-jerk Dailey Mailism) and on to dicussing the system itself. What are the alternatives, and what do they say about us as a society? Will the alternatives result in a country you'd like to live in?

    A voucher system says thing about a society that isn't representive of where I want to live, personally.
    Last edited by tmcd35; 4th February 2014 at 01:08 PM.

  4. #49


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    Quote Originally Posted by cpjitservices View Post
    Especially, when they think that going to work they loose out on time with there families and kids... which I can understand... but it's not a reason for not working.
    im not so sure even on that (granted im not and dont intend ever to be a parent)but i know for instance i enjoy spending more time with my sister/parents more now i see them less paradoxical as it may seem you can spend too much time with people

  5. #50

    Garacesh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    It's interesting that giving government officials that much power over your life doesn't bother you. How much can they dictate before they've gone to far? What of the companies who are not on the approved list? Do they go out of business when they loose custom?
    They apply to be on the list.
    I won't lie, there might be some complications, yes, and there will be a few corner shops accepting food cards for tobacco (but hopefully they get 'grassed up' and removed from the list, just the same way shops that serve alcohol to minors get reported)

    Nowhere am I saying the government get to dictate my life, please stop exaggerating. They get to dictate what I do with the money they give me because they money they give me is outlined for a specific purpose. If I am not using that money for the purpose they outline, yes, they have the right to withdraw it. Housing Benefit is specifically for rent. You'd be taken off it if they found out you were spending it on other things.

    This also brings up the argument: JSA is often spent on food, but it's intention is to aid you to find work. Food is not part of that. Food is a necessity of life.

    The government gets to stop telling me where I can spend my 'food stamps' when I stop using them. The government would not be telling you 'how to live your life'. It would be telling you that they are giving you money for $SpecificPurpose and I think it's quite fair that it's regulated to make sure it's spent on $SpecificPurpose and not having your kids go hungry this month because you want a new telly

  6. Thanks to Garacesh from:

    nephilim (4th February 2014)

  7. #51
    cpjitservices's Avatar
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    Well, Lets be honest here, for every person thats abusing the benefits system.... Were would they get jobs from anyway ? there arnt enough jobs to go around ?

    Unfortunately there just arn't enough jobs! So people who are abusing the system really.... you can't fully blame them. The government needs to pull it's finger out... and fix the economy - Tax cuts would be great... businesses to pay less tax and sole traders to pay less meaning they could take on more employees or offer more services or even expand!! - possible!

  8. #52

    Edu-IT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    EDIT: re-read the last paragraph, although it appears he might not sacrafice personally - it looks like his wife and kids are. Maybe there is something else to be said/done there? again a social not a (monatory) welfare problem
    That is nothing to do with it really though. The issue here is that there are people claiming tons of money, living lavish lifestyles, and getting away with it. You say they make sacrifices. I'd like to know what too. Sacrificing by having a 50 inch TV instead of a 70 inch, or having the standard Sky package instead of the one with movies and sports? Probably about right. Don't get me wrong, there are people fully deserving of benefits and I don't question that. What I question is those who cheat the system.

  9. #53

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    If it where up to me those who don't have severe enough disabilities and are perfectly capable of being independent, walking to the shop, driving a car wouldn't get MY money for help! Under exceptional circumstances I would re-consider and I'd be more likely to re-consider if that specific person had been working for a long time before going on benefits but would insist he/her got a job before the end of the year. If these rules where put in place watch how people would suddenly become active and find a job even if they are deemed unfit to work in our current society. My girlfriends parents know they can work they just choose not to and use their same old excuses not to. But if this was put in and if they didn't find a job at the end no money for them, watch them all scurry to find a job. It's todays society which has made it acceptable for people to cheat the system like this and make it to easy. If Stephen Hawking can work all his life and still currently does and this is a man with great achievements in his life so can most other people!

  10. #54

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garacesh View Post
    Nowhere am I saying the government get to dictate my life, please stop exaggerating.
    Sorry, just teasing out the argument. It's a fasinating subject.

    They get to dictate what I do with the money they give me because they money they give me is outlined for a specific purpose.
    Is that not a thin edge of a large wedge? If you let them get away with that, what next?

    Housing Benefit is specifically for rent. You'd be taken off it if they found out you were spending it on other things.
    Interesting example. I'm of the opinion that there should be one single means tested state welfare payment that applies to all. One single payment. It's upto you if you choose to spend a proportion of that income servicing your rent or your drug habit. Of course, if you choose not to pay your rent you'd end up homeless, but it's your choice.


    It would be telling you that they are giving you money for $SpecificPurpose and I think it's quite fair that it's regulated to make sure it's spent on $SpecificPurpose and not having your kids go hungry this month because you want a new telly
    But what if you can afford a new telly without the kids going hungry? And if the kids go hungry, again, is that not a social problem?

  11. #55

    nephilim's Avatar
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    It isnt so much the central government but local government which is screwing things.

    5 years ago Dunstable had nearly 600 shops operating within a 1 square mile area.
    Today it is down to 200 shops.

    The main reason for the closures is that the local authority is pushing up the rates whenever a shop shuts. One of my passions is comics and the comic book shop in my area closed because their rates went up 180% over the 4 years the shops were closing and the councils answer was "this is because the decreased revenues generated by shop closures". They dont see that the shops need better rates to stay open, pushing them up when a shop closes makes it harder on the businesses.

    M&S in luton, had the biggest floor space, they had to downgrade because they couldn't keep up with the rates where the shops were closing there also. This is a multinational company!

    If local councils didn't push up rates faster than inflation and sales rates, then the economy would stabilize quicker!

  12. #56

    Edu-IT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    But what if you can afford a new telly without the kids going hungry? And if the kids go hungry, again, is that not a social problem?
    So you're saying take the benefits, feed the kids, and what's left spend on a nice new TV? Really? Surely if they have a lot of money to spare, the kids aren't being fed properly or they are getting too much money in benefits?

  13. Thanks to Edu-IT from:

    abillybob (4th February 2014)

  14. #57
    d0pefish's Avatar
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    This thread :
    The Big Benefits Row-ag9mbbw_460sa.gif

  15. Thanks to d0pefish from:

    nephilim (4th February 2014)

  16. #58

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edu-IT View Post
    What I question is those who cheat the system.
    So suggest a better system. The fact is whatever you come up with there will always be cheats. So do you punish the majority for the crimes of a minority? Or do you look at another way of dealing with the cheats? Again, I suggest it's more likely a social problem than a welfare problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexbillbridgnorth View Post
    If it where up to me those who don't have severe enough disabilities and are perfectly capable of being independent, walking to the shop, driving a car wouldn't get MY money for help!
    As someone who pationately believes in the values of the welfare state - you've just successfully described a society I would hate to live in. If ever I fall on hard times I'd like to believe there is a safety net there to keep me from the very worst.

    Just look at parts of America or pre-War Britain and then tell me that the welfare state, for all it's flaws, isn't the better alternative.

  17. #59

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edu-IT View Post
    So you're saying take the benefits, feed the kids, and what's left spend on a nice new TV? Really? Surely if they have a lot of money to spare, the kids aren't being fed properly
    Or they are very good at budgeting and saving?

    or they are getting too much money in benefits?
    I never said the system isn't broke. Just the current suggested fix doesn't sound right either (IMHO).

  18. #60

    localzuk's Avatar
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    The discussion of benefit fraud is ridiculous anyway, when you compare it to other places where there are problems with fraud (tax evasion, for example).



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