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General Chat Thread, Michael Gove Pledges 10-Hour School Days in General; Private schools are much smaller, have smaller class sizes and can operate in a less stressful environment. I really don't ...
  1. #16

    HarryMonkey's Avatar
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    Private schools are much smaller, have smaller class sizes and can operate in a less stressful environment. I really don't see a 10 hour day in an inner city comp with class sizes of 30+ being indistinguishable from a private school.

  2. #17

    Theblacksheep's Avatar
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    This should be fun.

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    They can, they can close them and outsource to the academies!
    Academy or not though, teacher's unions are still involved.

    The point that Gove is seemingly missing is that there are multiple reasons private schools traditionally fare better than state; it stands to reason that if parents are paying for their child's education, they'll take more of an interest in it (that is not to say that all parents who send their children to state school don't care, but that parents who don't care most likely do send their children to state schools). Class sizes are smaller, allowing more one to one time and less distractions. Staff pay is higher allowing the schools to pick the cream of the crop in terms of teachers. There's generally an entrance exam meaning the worst performing students don't get through the door in the first place.

    There are so many reasons that this latest dribble from Gove makes no sense, but I don't think anyone outside his office is even questioning that.

  4. #19
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    Now I have actually read the article I am even more convinced that that he is astoundingly out of touch. "He said school plays, sports clubs, orchestras and debating competitions helped to "build character and instil grit"." How many schools don't have all this going NOW? Coupled with the increasing trend for Breakfast clubs to offer Wrap Around care and it's already happening.

    But then again this could be Mr Gove following the example of his task master and deliberately mis-leading the debate. Extending the school day and after school clubs are two entirely different things. We need to know what he's actually talking about before we can decide. But then again, so does Mr Gove.

    Tecchies probably won't be affected to any greater degree than they are now. And there's always the 48 hour/week opt out . Until this co-attrition decide to abolish that too.
    Last edited by GeekyPete; 3rd February 2014 at 05:24 PM.

  5. #20

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    Excellent, it's going to be like when I was working in the entertainment industry...38 hours at work had come and gone by wednesday lunchtime! I always felt like a part timer doing 9-5.

  6. #21
    GeekyPete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    Academy or not though, teacher's unions are still involved.
    Academies can set their own conditions of employment. Including not recognising union representation. They can have very little influence if they are not recognised. The system of protection of the workforce, which now more than ever includes the upper middlesclasses (Teachers, doctors, barristers etc) is being systematically dismantled before our very eyes.

    Does anyone remember what Carmeron said over and over and over again in his election run up? He will "cut 1%, that's £1 in every £100 to get this country back on it's feet". Now, consider that all MPs have access to the office of National Statisitcs, He cannot say "opps... Look what labour left us! I only found out how bad it was when I got into office!". Did he get his figures THAT wrong? He's now making cuts totalling 40%. Should someone who got it wrong by 3900% really be running the country? If a teacher predicted that 40% of their students would get C or above and only 1 did (the same margin of error as Mr Cameron) what would their ofsted inspector say?

  7. #22

    sparkeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post
    It will never fly, once he realises schools will need increased budgets to cover increases in staffing, heating, lighting........
    Quote Originally Posted by elsiegee40 View Post
    This will happen as soon as the government finds the money to fund the necessary increases in budget...
    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    You're talking about a 30% budget increase needed for that then I'd guess
    Increased budgets? According to the education underling that went on radio to defend this nonsense, its achievable with our current budgets. Apparently there are lots of schools already doing it with current funding...


  8. #23

    featured_spectre's Avatar
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    yes and naturally flying pigs have been spotted...and their wings taste delicious!

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeekyPete View Post
    Now, consider that all MPs have access to the office of National Statisitcs, He cannot say "opps... Look what labour left us! I only found out how bad it was when I got into office!". Did he get his figures THAT wrong?
    It isn't strictly as simple as statistics though. There's a lot of information on the precise ins and outs of the economy that's kept strictly within the Treasury. That's why I didn't vote for Clegg, because he was always there on the run-up to the election endlessly talking about raising the tax threshold and all manner of other attractive-sounding schemes... all without having the slightest inkling of the true state of the economy. Cameron, wisely, continually dodged the question when asked (they've got to be good at something!) as opposed to making bold statements. I actually respected him more for that at the time.

  10. #25

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    Anyway, here's the rub on this one I think:

    "So a future Conservative Government would help state schools - just like independent schools - to offer a school day 9 or 10 hours long - allowing time for structured homework sessions, prep, which will be particularly helpful for those children who come from homes where it's difficult to secure the peace and quiet necessary for hard study."

    Help how and with what? To be honest, if there's already an acknowledgement at this stage that some degree of assistance is required - be it in additional staff, resources, money in general - then in principle I've no objection. Whatever decisions this Coalition makes they're often not too bad at sending them out for consultation first, so that would be our opportunity as IT staff to jump in and point out the impact on ourselves and the services we run. The same goes for shorter summer holidays.

  11. #26

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    If he wants the state schools to be more like private schools - I say the bottom performing quartile of kids in the state sector should be transferred to the private sector and the top performing quartile of the private school kids to the state sector and then we'd see how the league tables looked ;-)

    More seriously - I've just read "The Blunders Of Our Governments" (interesting book by the way) and Gove's proposals (and I realise he was mostly grandstanding to his own party...but...) closely follow the stages that are outlined in the book for creating a big blunder - namely he surrounds himself with "Yes" men, doesn't like to hear or take on board any opposing ideas, likes to get swiftly from an idea to actuality without thinking much about the practicalities and doesn't expect to be in the same job for much longer to take the blame or pick up the pieces when it all goes tits up...

    Just a thought...

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpuffMonkey View Post
    he surrounds himself with "Yes" men, doesn't like to hear or take on board any opposing ideas, likes to get swiftly from an idea to actuality without thinking much about the practicalities and doesn't expect to be in the same job for much longer to take the blame or pick up the pieces when it all goes tits up...
    See also: Moron

  13. #28
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    I know some of the stuff Gove comes out with is a bit much but I can't help feel sometimes people dismiss what he says out of hand because he is Gove and/or a Tory. Education (and State education particularly) has always been left leaning so there will be a natural antipathy to the Tories but it doesn't mean it's all rubbish.

    A working parent might think a ten hour school day is magnificent, imagine a parent who works 8 hours a day, when you include a commute it's more like 9 hours. This would mean no childcare costs which would save an awful lot of money?

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikaso View Post
    I know some of the stuff Gove comes out with is a bit much but I can't help feel sometimes people dismiss what he says out of hand because he is Gove and/or a Tory. Education (and State education particularly) has always been left leaning so there will be a natural antipathy to the Tories but it doesn't mean it's all rubbish.

    A working parent might think a ten hour school day is magnificent, imagine a parent who works 8 hours a day, when you include a commute it's more like 9 hours. This would mean no childcare costs which would save an awful lot of money?
    I agree that things like homework clubs etc may be a good idea for schools to implement, but these things don't come for free and he's already said there ain't going to be any budget increase. Who's going to pay for teaching for these hours, additional support staff hours, catering (you can't expect the kids not to eat until after 6pm)? Also, is another school going to open even longer so that the staff at this school don't have to pay for childcare?
    Last edited by Hokalus; 4th February 2014 at 11:18 AM.



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