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General Chat Thread, The Michael Gove BETT Speech in General; https://www.gov.uk/government/speech...ion-technology...
  1. #1

    JJonas's Avatar
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    The Michael Gove BETT Speech

    Last edited by JJonas; 22nd January 2014 at 03:25 PM.

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    Gatt's Avatar
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    Hmm

    Chrome is throwing an error I've never seen before

    This page cannot be loaded due to a high volume of Verbal Diarrhoea

  3. 7 Thanks to Gatt:

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    JJonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatt View Post
    Hmm

    Chrome is throwing an error I've never seen before
    He is still Education Secretary so I thought it might be helpful to post it, as we have to deal with the aftermath.

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    CHR1S's Avatar
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    Anyone care to TLDR it for me....

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    Greenbeast (22nd January 2014)

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    Garacesh's Avatar
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    As the Andy's might say.. "Wha' absolu'e 'orsesh"

    ICT used to focus purely on computer literacy - teaching pupils, over and over again, how to word process, how to work a spreadsheet, how to use programs already creaking into obsolescence; about as much use as teaching children to send a telex or travel in a zeppelin.
    Whilst I kinda-sorta-ish agree with that...
    Now, our new curriculum teaches children computer science, information technology, and digital literacy: teaching them how to code, and how to create their own programs; not just how to work a computer; but how a computer works, and how to make it work for you.
    Firstly, what the hell is 'digital literacy'? They learn literacy in English class. They don't need 'digital literacy' - they just need to know the layout of a keyboard. After 3 years of high-school ICT you'd expect them to have figured that out! Also I'd like to see this coding they're taught? About the closest thing is web design, and that's all done via WYSIWYG!

    From 5, children will learn to code and program
    Done. I'm out.

    Moron.

  8. 2 Thanks to Garacesh:

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  9. #6
    CAM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Gove
    Snapchat...Snapchat...Snapchat...
    Sensing a running theme here.

  10. #7
    foofighterjim's Avatar
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    I'm sorry it is more than two lines. There is no way I’m going to read more than that from a politician.

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    IWDave (28th January 2014)

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    The bloke is undoubtedly an idiot. But the worst kind. An opinionated and ill informed idiot in a position of influence.

    It's not an either or, people need to be able to use a computer as well as know how to code. But lets face it, ask your Mum if she needs to know how to send an email, post a pic on face book or white her own app to control a virtual robot and see what her answer is. My mum is 72 and can do 2 out of the three of them. Coding will be the calculus of the next generation. We all know it's really useful because we did it at school but we've never used it since we left.

    If his telex analogy is true then we should also stop teaching handwriting and long division. But yet somehow still teach calculus. Surely it stands you in good stead to know how to use something before you figure out how it works. How many motor mechanics can't drive, Watch makers can't tell the time, Indian chefs don't eat curry? Teach people how to use a computer properly, see how useful it is, then show them how to code and make it better. Anyone who knows how to use a spreadsheet properly needs to know how to use VBA, Workprocessing is increasingly using XML.

    This bloke and his whole co-hort need removing from their positions as soon as possible. It's now just a damage limitation excerise.

  13. 2 Thanks to GeekyPete:

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    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    I'm sorry, I opened the page, but then the photo of him was so smug I got angry and had to click away before I broke my monitor with my fist.

    Really is a face not even a mother could love.

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  16. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by Garacesh View Post
    Firstly, what the hell is 'digital literacy'? They learn literacy in English class. They don't need 'digital literacy' - they just need to know the layout of a keyboard. After 3 years of high-school ICT you'd expect them to have figured that out! Also I'd like to see this coding they're taught? About the closest thing is web design, and that's all done via WYSIWYG!
    Digital literacy is basic use of a computer to do word processing, spreadsheet, presentations, use the internet etc. We find that not all students coming into secondary have good skills in this area and they are required across the curriculum. DL is distinct from 'computing' (how IT works technically) and 'Information Technology' (making IT work for people).

  17. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by GeekyPete View Post
    Coding will be the calculus of the next generation. We all know it's really useful because we did it at school but we've never used it since we left.
    I write some code certainly every week. I find the lack of coding skills in IT support people to be surprising and ... disappointing.

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    buzzard (23rd January 2014)

  19. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    I write some code certainly every week. I find the lack of coding skills in IT support people to be surprising and ... disappointing.
    Why? Aside from the odd bit of scripting, coding isn't a part of my job.

  20. #13

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    I feel a bit dirty but I am going to stick up for some of those ideas.

    Why shouldn't 5 year olds do programming? Ok they aren't going to be programming the next big app but why shouldn't they start to understand about instructions and loops and boolean operators. Not necessarily using those terms but in a simplified manner? How many of us were guilty as small things of taking apart a new toy or something to see how it works?
    I'm trying to remember who it was that was equating the lack of programming/pure math teaching with a lack of basic logic in the population. An understanding of IF THIS... THEN THIS is very powerful, not just in computing but as a transferable skill! Make children more familiar with what is happening and let them experiment. Consumption only goes so far, production develops skills much quicker and much deeper. How many times have we said on here that teaching Word and Excel and PowerPoint was a silly idea and we need to teach skills?

    There is also the argument that we should be teaching children as wide a curriculum as possible to give them a taster of what is possible, so a smidgen of programming might ignite an interest in the next computing heavyweights.

    The issue is how it is implemented to be as simple as possible for the classroom without trained computing (not ICT) teachers.

    He is still an eejit though.

  21. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norphy View Post
    Why? Aside from the odd bit of scripting, coding isn't a part of my job.
    Agreed, I find coding very boring, it used to be my job, but I couldn't see myself doing it for years and years. Forgotten most of it now, but know enough to work out someone elses code if required.

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    @TechMonkey - that's basically my feelings on getting children coding - it's unlikely to do harm, so why not? Kids may well not discover coding on their own, even if they'd love it if given the chance. Logical debugging/troubleshooting skills are another great transferable that you can get through learning to code.

    Just because Gove is generally a prat doesn't mean that he can't have some good ideas.



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