+ Post New Thread
Page 6 of 11 FirstFirst ... 2345678910 ... LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 163
General Chat Thread, Parents to confront School governors over iPads in General; Originally Posted by Marshall_IT 1. Classroom management by Staff and Behaviour Management for failure to follow the rules. 2. Classroom ...
  1. #76

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,892
    Thank Post
    518
    Thanked 2,494 Times in 1,935 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    839
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall_IT View Post
    1. Classroom management by Staff and Behaviour Management for failure to follow the rules.
    2. Classroom management by Staff and Behaviour Management for failure to follow the rules.
    3. The same sanctions that are in place for if you forget your books. Also spare devices are kept in school and charged that can be lent out in school.
    4. No, not every lesson require the use of these types of devices and generally students are only allowed to take them out of their bags when staff request them to do so.
    I fear you miss my point. If a device is unmanaged, it is entirely possible for a kid to be playing around and wasting time without their teacher knowing about it. A simple 2 taps when you see a teacher heading your way and voila, you look like you're working. So, classroom management and behaviour management are almost irrelevant as they'd be impossible to enforce.

    Spare devices? Great. That'll be cheap, and easy to maintain. If you forget your books, you're given a piece of paper and told to stick it in the book. Can't really do that with the internet!

    With 4 - so you're now saying that this general purpose device which could be used for textbooks, or for writing up work, or as a calculator or whatever can only be used for internet research and teachers should tell kids to put them away other than then? Seems rather limiting to have such an expensive device used for a single purpose...
    @tmcd35 - If a device is BYOD, there is absolutely no way you can enforce any MDM solution. Many of these concerns are more fundamental than implementation concerns, they can and do kill such a project at the off because they are simply insurmountable.

    You're also assuming every school has a poor implementation of IT that there is restricted access to resources. Our ICT suites here currently have a booking rate of 65%. That's 35% spare capacity. We also have machines in every year 6 classroom, in our year 5 block, in our maths rooms and in our Art and DT rooms. None of them are in use every lesson. If they can't even make full use of existing equipment, its very difficult to justify a need for 1:1 devices.

  2. #77


    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    2,778
    Thank Post
    1,024
    Thanked 395 Times in 296 Posts
    Rep Power
    220
    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    Garacesh, interesting response, I agree with most of what you said. Sorry if I come across as "this is a universal" struggle, not my intent! I'm very aware every school is different and will have different challeges/solutions - which is the whole point really, isn't it?

    The core challenge is the same everywhere though. How to provide enought ICT resources to meet the communities needs, and how to define what those needs are. It's sounds to me like you already have your solution and to be honest it's one I'd like to mirror here.

    The problem with the Internet as a resource, is that you can't totally predict when it's going to be needed. If you don't have 1:1 devices then although at times none of the available ICT resources are being used, at other times Year 8 French have to go without because Year 9 German are using the devices this lesson.

    The question should be "how do we meet these needs", rather than asking "are these needs legitimate". In my mind too meny are asking the later rather than focusing on the former.
    Not a problem - I understood what you meant, I suppose I was trying to say "Without knowing the current IT Infrastructure of the school in question, none of us can definitively say if this idea is good or bad.", then again, that's why we're debating here

    The needs are legitimate, I'm certain. The need for students to have internet access in lesson (sometimes) and the need for the students to be able to electronically create work so that it can be modified easily, submitted electronically (where appropriate) and most importantly, backed up to protect against malicious or accidental deletion, corruption or hardware failure. What I personally don't agree with is the way these needs are being addressed. 1:1 iPads is not the solution, in my opinion.
    Last edited by Garacesh; 17th January 2014 at 09:40 AM.

  3. #78

    Ephelyon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Cheshire, England
    Posts
    1,708
    Thank Post
    299
    Thanked 328 Times in 201 Posts
    Rep Power
    143
    Quote Originally Posted by sted View Post
    try typing an essay on an ipad and i suspect you will lose the will to live much faster than on a laptop (personally anything longer than a short email i find a pita on a touchscreen)
    This is why you go for the keyboard case for (in our case) about an extra tenner. I agree with your points in general though.

  4. #79
    Quackers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,351
    Thank Post
    41
    Thanked 146 Times in 121 Posts
    Rep Power
    54
    Quote Originally Posted by Ephelyon View Post
    This is why you go for the keyboard case for (in our case) about an extra tenner. I agree with your points in general though.
    Im interested in these £10 keyboard cases, do you have a link?

  5. #80

    tmcd35's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    5,727
    Thank Post
    859
    Thanked 904 Times in 749 Posts
    Blog Entries
    9
    Rep Power
    330
    Quote Originally Posted by Garacesh View Post
    The needs are legitimate, I'm certain. The need for students to have internet access in lesson (sometimes) and the need for the students to be able to electronically create work so that it can be modified easily, submitted electronically (where appropriate) and most importantly, backed up to protect against malicious or accidental deletion, corruption or hardware failure. What I personally don't agree with is the way these needs are being addressed. 1:1 iPads is not the solution, in my opinion.
    And rather belatedly, that's were I entered this thread. I'm not so certain 1:1 iPads are the solution either, then again I'm not completely convinced they are not either. We know technology moves forward at alarming pace. We know they way kids are using technology has changed radically compared to say 5 years ago. We agree that there are some legitimate needs. The question then is how do we meet those needs? What are the alternative models? And how will those models hold up in 5 years time?

    I don't know what the right answer is, but I'm interested in finding one because I know this school needs it.

    @localzuk, I'm not trying to suggest that every school has poor ICT implementation strategies - far from it. I'm guessing the starting point of schools like the OP probably wasn't far off ours. Either that or the head is a technofreek with too much money to spend and no time for proper market research (I've meet some).

    For me, it's about defining the expected outcomes, the end goal, uses. I see no reason why BYOD can't be part of a solution, and personally I think it's being soft on teachers to suggest that effective classroom management isn't a legitimate answer to some concerns.

  6. #81

    Ephelyon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Cheshire, England
    Posts
    1,708
    Thank Post
    299
    Thanked 328 Times in 201 Posts
    Rep Power
    143
    Unfortunately I don't specifically, but this is the supplier who provided them with the tablets and they're shown in the videos:

    Tablet Computers for Schools - Benefits & Challenges

    They seem to be something like this but with a USB to micro-USB adapter supplied:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Keyboard-Cas...dp/B004GHSRIA/

  7. #82

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Dudley
    Posts
    121
    Thank Post
    18
    Thanked 32 Times in 22 Posts
    Rep Power
    13
    We had a similar sounding 1:1 scheme at my children's primary school a couple of years ago, only the decision then was to use linux minibooks (manged), pre installed with a lot of educational freeware rather than iPads for around 10/month over 3yrs.

    The 'consultation' with parents on this involved a meeting one evening where we were pitched to about the benefits of 1:1 computing for an hour and then given an information booklet telling us how the scheme (which was already going ahead) was going to work.

    The way that one worked was that parents entered into a credit agreement with the supplier for each device and then owned it after the 3 year period. We were told that the scheme was optional but that if not enough parents participated it could not go ahead. The school said they would purchase additional devices themselves for pupils which did not participate so they could also use a device in school. Pupils also had the option of providing and bringing their own device in instead but obviously the school would not be able to guarantee they would be able to support them effectively with this.

    I along with a fair few other parents were not happy. My main objection was that we were being expected to buy 2 more computers that we didn't really want and couldn't really afford because the school wanted to use them to help educate pupils. In my opinion this should be a school purchase. Additionally I had reservations about how much use they would get in school over the 3 years. Some class teachers I knew were enthusiastic about technology and some I knew were not. As a result we did not participate.

    My children were clearly disappointed when the school year started and a lot of their classmates brought in their new laptops. In lessons they were able to use a school computer as promised but often had to share 1 between 2 along with the others who had not participated. They complained about this quite a bit and in the end guess what - We got them new laptops for Christmas. I don't think it is fair for schools to place this kind of pressure on families to buy high value items.

    Two years on and I havn't heard mention of the initiative for quite some time. There's been no feedback from the school that I'm aware of about how the scheme has gone, extolling the benefits that this 1:1 program has provided and based on my experience of the school, if the scheme had delivered on the hype we would have heard about it.

    My overall point here (apart from just letting off steam) is that if the school sees a need for these devices, they should provide them and pay for them. I probably wouldn't object too much to a small affordable parental contribution towards the cost, particularly if they could be brought home.
    Last edited by spadam; 17th January 2014 at 09:59 AM.

  8. #83

    Ephelyon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Cheshire, England
    Posts
    1,708
    Thank Post
    299
    Thanked 328 Times in 201 Posts
    Rep Power
    143
    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    I think it's being soft on teachers to suggest that effective classroom management isn't a legitimate answer to some concerns.
    Some of the time it will work, but it's equally unrealistic to suggest that we should just "tick the box" of any misuse problems by passing the buck to the teachers. It's never worked that way.

  9. #84
    Gibson335's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    933
    Thank Post
    257
    Thanked 133 Times in 106 Posts
    Rep Power
    79
    Effective classroom management...is fine in the hands of some, not so fine in the hands of others, and just awful in the hands of rather too many for my liking. What kind of classroom management is it when you get a mail from a teacher asking you to use Impero to check out what student x is doing on their computer, when they are in that same room with student x supposedly 'managing' the classroom?

    It's the fear of confrontation, I'm afraid.

  10. #85
    SteveBentley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Posts
    1,439
    Thank Post
    120
    Thanked 263 Times in 189 Posts
    Rep Power
    72
    To my mind, the only controversy here is who is paying. The big benefit I see, in time, is that all kids will have a device that can get them online, and that will mean that we can totally revamp the curriculum.

    If we (grudgingly) accept that a large proportion of what happens in education is teaching for the exam, then we can move to a position where the exam is "open net" - all candidates have access to the net via their device. The questions on the paper then become far more complex and have a greater emphasis on researching, evaluating sources, applying knowledge and problem solving rather than regurgitating facts. This makes the exam more relevant to the real world and makes qualifications a more useful barometer of how useful a candidate for a job is going to be.

    This Guardian blog post about how iPads and iPods have revolutionised year 6 science at one school makes for interesting reading
    How we used technology to develop student-led learning in science | Teacher Network | Guardian Professional

  11. Thanks to SteveBentley from:

    tmcd35 (17th January 2014)

  12. #86

    tmcd35's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    5,727
    Thank Post
    859
    Thanked 904 Times in 749 Posts
    Blog Entries
    9
    Rep Power
    330
    @Gibson335, I agree entirely - which is why I resist all suggestion that I could be an ICT Instructor. I know I couldn't do certain part of the job. But then, the answer to your point is - what are the SLT doing about poor teaching standards? Surely an effective SLT would have a view on a teachers ability to monitor a class and whether asking ICT support to monitor the class for them is correct behaviour?

    Technology is not the answer to all problems; bad teaching/management practices are not reasons against using using technology...

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveBentley View Post
    To my mind, the only controversy here is who is paying.
    Out of curiosity. What is your view on school uniforms, pencil cases, calculators and homework diarys?
    Last edited by tmcd35; 17th January 2014 at 10:14 AM.

  13. #87
    Gibson335's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    933
    Thank Post
    257
    Thanked 133 Times in 106 Posts
    Rep Power
    79
    [QUOTE=tmcd35;1112958]what are the SLT doing about poor teaching standards? Surely an effective SLT would have a view on a teachers ability to monitor a class and whether asking ICT support to monitor the class for them is correct behaviour?

    Technology is not the answer to all problems; bad teaching/management practices are not reasons against using using technology...
    QUOTE]

    The feeble response from SLT simply confirms my own view - the avoidance of conflict. And I would agree, those are not reasons against using technology, but they are reasons for doubting the effectiveness if technology is not better targeted.

  14. #88
    Gibson335's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    933
    Thank Post
    257
    Thanked 133 Times in 106 Posts
    Rep Power
    79
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveBentley View Post
    To my mind, the only controversy here is who is paying. The big benefit I see, in time, is that all kids will have a device that can get them online, and that will mean that we can totally revamp the curriculum.

    If we (grudgingly) accept that a large proportion of what happens in education is teaching for the exam, then we can move to a position where the exam is "open net" - all candidates have access to the net via their device. The questions on the paper then become far more complex and have a greater emphasis on researching, evaluating sources, applying knowledge and problem solving rather than regurgitating facts. This makes the exam more relevant to the real world and makes qualifications a more useful barometer of how useful a candidate for a job is going to be.

    This Guardian blog post about how iPads and iPods have revolutionised year 6 science at one school makes for interesting reading
    How we used technology to develop student-led learning in science | Teacher Network | Guardian Professional
    Engagement is the key here (in the article).

  15. #89
    SteveBentley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Posts
    1,439
    Thank Post
    120
    Thanked 263 Times in 189 Posts
    Rep Power
    72
    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    Out of curiosity. What is your view on school uniforms, pencil cases, calculators and homework diarys?
    There's an argument, certainly with pencil cases and calculators, that if kids have to provide their own they're more likely to look after them than if they were provided by the school on a per-session basis.

    I think lower income families get help with uniform costs? (I know none of that really constitutes a "view", I'm not sure I really have one)

  16. #90


    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    2,778
    Thank Post
    1,024
    Thanked 395 Times in 296 Posts
    Rep Power
    220
    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    Out of curiosity. What is your view on school uniforms, pencil cases, calculators and homework diarys?
    They're nowhere near as expensive as £300 over 3 years.

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 6 of 11 FirstFirst ... 2345678910 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [iPad] Windows takes too long to install drivers and bricks iPad
    By Arcath in forum Netbooks, PDA and Phones
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 18th October 2013, 05:47 PM
  2. Replies: 32
    Last Post: 29th July 2013, 10:44 PM
  3. Saving back to school shares from iPad
    By safcphil in forum Home Access Plus+
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 7th March 2013, 11:23 AM
  4. Trying to send hotmail emails over embc - problem
    By Zebadee in forum General Chat
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 9th May 2008, 09:34 PM
  5. Request to visit school using TS in S Wales or S West
    By joe90bass in forum Thin Client and Virtual Machines
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 20th November 2007, 10:55 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •