+ Post New Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 53
General Chat Thread, PAT Testing????? in General; with refrance to the law bit I was trying to make it simple the heath and safety at work act ...
  1. #31
    alonebfg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    south west some of the time
    Posts
    834
    Thank Post
    12
    Thanked 34 Times in 21 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5
    Rep Power
    24

    Re: PAT Testing?????

    with refrance to the law bit I was trying to make it simple the heath and safety at work act Is where you will find a refrance to it and if it can be moved it must be tested and yes it includes every thing if you do it in rental home you also have to test washing machines fridges freezers etc etc. It covers everything that is connected to a ring main and does not have it own fused circuit basically everything with a plug on This includes ups servers switches etc etc

    tanken from book

    What is Portable Appliance Testing?

    The 'Inspection and Testing of In-Service Electrical equipment' (usually referred to as Portable appliance testing or PAT), was introduced to enable companies & organisations comply with the Electricity at Work Regulations. To meet these regulations it is necessary to have in place a program of inspection and electrical safety testing of portable appliances. Other legislation of specific relevance to electrical maintenance - The Health & Safety at Work Act 1974, the Management of Health & Safety at Work Regulations 1999, the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992, and the Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations 1998.

    What electrical equipment needs to be tested?

    The regulations cover all items of in-service electrical equipment, this includes all movable items connected to the mains supply by 13A BS1363 plugs, BS EN60309-2 industrial plugs or hard wired via a fused connection unit. In addition to being responsible for the safety of their own portable appliances, companies are are also responsible for the safety of electrical equipment brought on site by employees and contractors.

    so it includes some stuff without plugs.

    But also it is a very gray area as IET says one thing and the HSA says another (Made a phone call today with reference to this just to make sure and was told there is no law as such people just like to cover themselves if it goes wrong and was not tested and a union classes it as pat the pat tester of that is then at fault ?? take it as you will Me i test every plug.

    http://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/information/law.htm
    you are right offices are not every year but schools are ?? this is the same as in my pat book code of pratice
    http://www.plugtest.co.uk/frequency.htm

  2. #32
    Oops_my_bad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Man chest hair
    Posts
    1,738
    Thank Post
    438
    Thanked 53 Times in 50 Posts
    Rep Power
    30

    Re: PAT Testing?????

    Just sight test the lot:
    "Er, yeh Dave that looks OK to me"

  3. #33
    enjay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Reading, Berkshire, UK
    Posts
    4,488
    Thank Post
    282
    Thanked 196 Times in 167 Posts
    Rep Power
    76

    Re: PAT Testing?????

    Quote Originally Posted by petectid
    Projectors are portable appliances, Nick how do you change the lamp, clean the filters without touching the appliance.
    Well, if its still on the mains, I don't. First step whenever I'm doing anything to the projectors is to hit the power kill switch on the wall - if you want to change lamps or filters on projectors which have a live power feed, be my guest....

    That said, I perform the following steps with regards to PAT testing our projectors - nothing for the first 5 years (which at present covers all our projectors) and then a visual inspection thereafter. The only one where this could get a bit fiddly is the one which is poking through a false ceiling, as I'll have to lift the tiles up to see the cable, the rest can be done from the doorway.

  4. #34

    Andrew_C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Winchester
    Posts
    2,980
    Thank Post
    64
    Thanked 379 Times in 289 Posts
    Rep Power
    160

    Re: PAT Testing?????

    One could do a risk assessment that ends up saying something like:-

    1) Equipment tested prior to being taken into service.
    2) Equipment is "Out of Reach"
    3) Equipment is not disturbed.

    Low risk of developing fault

    4) Equipment is DIFFICULT to reach
    5) Working off ladders is a non-preferred means of access, but nothing else is appropriate for a classroom.
    6) Significant risk of damaging equipment removing it from the ceiling.

    Moderate risk of injury/damage while testing.

    Therefore we will only test on acquisition, and at any time the equipment is taken down for re-lamping or other essential maintenance.

    Of course, YMMV in your particular scenario.

  5. #35

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    3,156
    Thank Post
    116
    Thanked 529 Times in 452 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    124

    Re: PAT Testing?????

    Quote Originally Posted by TeddyKGB
    Just sight test the lot:
    "Er, yeh Dave that looks OK to me"
    While that sounds a bit vague, it's actually far more useful than the full PAT stuff.

    Let's suppose you very carefully spend the whole summer testing every bit of kit. It's all absolutely fine, you label it, log it all in your database etc.

    September comes, people arrive in school and some little darling damages a mains cable so that bare copper is exposed. Unless someone visually checks the lead before it's used EACH TIME then you run the risk of injury or death.

    I think this is partly why PAT is not a legal requirement. It will pick up some faults but won't pick up things which are potentially far more hazardous (if the earth connection to the metal bits of a monitor is faulty then it will fail PAT; that's not actually hazardous until something comes loose inside the machine and touches the metal. If you have bare wires because someone has tugged the mains lead part way out of something then that is immediately dangerous)

    The Health and Safety at Work Act imposes a duty of care on every person at work - that means that everyone using something which is potentially hazardous should make a 5 second check of it before using it to make sure that there are no obvious hazards.

  6. #36
    chrbb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Midlands
    Posts
    1,508
    Thank Post
    141
    Thanked 67 Times in 62 Posts
    Rep Power
    47

    Re: PAT Testing?????

    Sorry to drag this subject up again - just spoken to our pat tester who is making his third visit to our school to finish off the annual testing.

    He wants to test the server, that's ok because I'm in all day tomorrow and can shut the server down at lunchtime, but when I queried if it needed testing it's only a couple of months old he said that we should pat test everything before it goes into general use, regardless of the fact it's brand new. Does anyone else do this?

  7. #37
    enjay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Reading, Berkshire, UK
    Posts
    4,488
    Thank Post
    282
    Thanked 196 Times in 167 Posts
    Rep Power
    76

    Re: PAT Testing?????

    Quote Originally Posted by chrbb
    he said that we should pat test everything before it goes into general use, regardless of the fact it's brand new. Does anyone else do this?
    Garbage!

    We don't test new equipment where there is a clear date of purchase (e.g. PCs) however it is done for vacuum cleaners, kettles and the like where it is much harder to identify which ones are 3+ years old and which ones are not. If you PAT test it as it comes out the box and write that date on the sticker, you know for definite when it is due its first real test.

    Personally I would strongly resist anyone PAT testing our server - I've seen too many PCs blown with a bad test that there is no way I would trust one onto the server. Put it in the same category as the ceiling-mounted projectors discussed earlier; no one touches them and the power cable is not plugged in and out repeatedly, so a quick visual inspection will suffice.

  8. #38

    Andrew_C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Winchester
    Posts
    2,980
    Thank Post
    64
    Thanked 379 Times in 289 Posts
    Rep Power
    160

    Re: PAT Testing?????

    Quote Originally Posted by NickJones
    Garbage!
    We don't test new equipment where there is a clear date of purchase
    Sorry Nick, but how do you PROVE that the new equipment is safe? This is the acid test.

    If someone dies because the IEC lead on a new PC is faulty, and you cannot PROVE in court that you had done the "reasonably practical" inspection and testing, your ass is in the sling.

    I was taught that this initial test is necessary as 1) production testing is only done on representative samples, and 2) to give you a baseline to determine whether an item is deteriorating over time.

  9. #39
    enjay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Reading, Berkshire, UK
    Posts
    4,488
    Thank Post
    282
    Thanked 196 Times in 167 Posts
    Rep Power
    76

    Re: PAT Testing?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_C
    If someone dies because the IEC lead on a new PC is faulty, and you cannot PROVE in court that you had done the "reasonably practical" inspection and testing, your ass is in the sling.
    It's actually the school's ass in the sling, not my personal one, but in that instance I would have noticed the split wires and not used the cable. Let's face it, it is very difficult to unbox and assemble a new PC without carrying out a visual inspection on it! Legally, that inspection will suffice for the next five years (morally is another question, of course!).

    Let's assume for a moment that I do test every cable and PC as they come out the box, just like you are. What guarantee is there a month, week, day or even hour later that the PC is still safe? Absolutely none. So let's imagine that we both buy new PCs in January, I will visually inspect the cables while you fully PAT test yours, and then randomly both our PCs electrocute someone in October that year - is your ass any less in the sling than mine?

  10. #40
    alonebfg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    south west some of the time
    Posts
    834
    Thank Post
    12
    Thanked 34 Times in 21 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5
    Rep Power
    24

    Re: PAT Testing?????

    Actually its your ass if you are the pat tester yes the school will get into trouble but such has been pointed out in this thread before it is everyone's responsibility and if you are head of it equipment that's your ass in the firing line. and people should test every day as part of pat a visual inspection can tell a lot. and electrics do not fail like that to short or electrocute someone there needs to have been someone doing some serious damage and the fuse (pat test includes checking fuse rating) rating is the correct. this would cause a overcurrent and the fuse would blow before electrocutes you.

  11. #41

    Andrew_C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Winchester
    Posts
    2,980
    Thank Post
    64
    Thanked 379 Times in 289 Posts
    Rep Power
    160

    Re: PAT Testing?????

    Quote Originally Posted by alonebfg
    and electrics do not fail like that to short or electrocute someone there needs to have been someone doing some serious damage and the fuse (pat test includes checking fuse rating) rating is the correct. this would cause a overcurrent and the fuse would blow before electrocutes you.
    Sorry if I've mis-interpreted, but it is a bit difficult to make out your meaning.

    Not all faults will cause a fuse to blow without killing you first, and many can go undetected. For example, an earth core can degrade leaving just one strand intact. Visually, nothing to show, a simple test will show continuity, but under fault conditions it wouldn't carry sufficient current to provide safety. A proper test at 2x rated current will rupture it and show up the problem.

    High earth loop resistances will be detected by a proper test, and if you are keeping good records, a slow degradation can be detected before anyone gets hurt.

  12. #42

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,836
    Thank Post
    517
    Thanked 2,476 Times in 1,919 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    836

    Re: PAT Testing?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_C
    If someone dies because the IEC lead on a new PC is faulty, and you cannot PROVE in court that you had done the "reasonably practical" inspection and testing, your ass is in the sling.

    I was taught that this initial test is necessary as 1) production testing is only done on representative samples, and 2) to give you a baseline to determine whether an item is deteriorating over time.
    Huh? proving in court would simply be 'we bought an object which connects to 240v power and is legally required to be fit for purpose and not faulty. It was faulty therefore the responsibility falls into the manufacturer's lap - not mine.'

  13. #43

    Andrew_C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Winchester
    Posts
    2,980
    Thank Post
    64
    Thanked 379 Times in 289 Posts
    Rep Power
    160

    Re: PAT Testing?????

    That does NOT prove that you took 'all reasonable care'. It proves that you trusted the manufacturer, nothing more.

  14. #44
    Joedetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Walsall
    Posts
    1,316
    Thank Post
    6
    Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
    Rep Power
    22

    Re: PAT Testing?????

    As an aside I seem to remember once being told that equipment that is mounted in a rack (ie, static kit...not portable like switches and servers etc) doesn't need to be tested.

    What's the stance on this? Does it actually need to be tested?

  15. #45

    Sylv3r's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Co. Durham
    Posts
    3,213
    Thank Post
    372
    Thanked 379 Times in 337 Posts
    Rep Power
    148

    Re: PAT Testing?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Joedetic
    As an aside I seem to remember once being told that equipment that is mounted in a rack (ie, static kit...not portable like switches and servers etc) doesn't need to be tested.

    What's the stance on this? Does it actually need to be tested?
    Our PAT testers leave it to the discretion of the school when it comes to switches and servers.

    I have always told them not to bother, but legally im not 100% where I stand on this one.

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. PAT Testing
    By Digger88 in forum How do you do....it?
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 7th May 2009, 09:51 AM
  2. So What Next For Exam Testing
    By russdev in forum Blue Skies
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 12th January 2007, 08:41 AM
  3. cable testing
    By witch in forum Wireless Networks
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10th October 2006, 12:30 PM
  4. Testing Old PCs
    By CM786 in forum Hardware
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 6th July 2006, 07:58 AM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •