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General Chat Thread, Gov proposes 60mph motorway speed limit in General; Originally Posted by Greenbeast but trains don't go where roads do.... Most towns and cities have train stations though. Use ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeast View Post
    but trains don't go where roads do....
    Most towns and cities have train stations though. Use smaller local lorries to deliver from there?

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    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeast View Post
    but trains don't go where roads do....
    "Where we're going we don't need roads" - Doc. Brown 1985

  3. 2 Thanks to tmcd35:

    Greenbeast (7th January 2014), Pyroman (9th January 2014)

  4. #48
    CAM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hefferzzzz View Post
    Most towns and cities have train stations though. Use smaller local lorries to deliver from there?
    Doesn't work anymore. Virtually all stations had their goods yards and other depot facilities ripped out and timetables are too tight to block a passenger platform unloading goods.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAM View Post
    Doesn't work anymore. Virtually all stations had their goods yards and other depot facilities ripped out and timetables are too tight to block a passenger platform unloading goods.
    What would cost more then?

    Build wider motorways, introduce new gantry signs, limits, enforcement.

    Build new/recommisson old rail hubs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jinnantonnixx View Post
    The stretch is 32 miles long. The additional time to cover that distance at 60mph rather than 70mph is an extra four and a half minutes, assuming you are able to achieve a steady 60/70mph respectively.
    Interesting. 4.5min doesn't sound a lot over a single 32mile stretch. The problem comes if the 32mile stretch is deemed so successful the national speed limit is dropped to 60mph. I semi-reguarly finish work at 4pm and just make it to the NEC in Birmingham at 7pm for the start of a show. Over that kind of distance such a change in speed limit could easilly add up to me missing the start of the show...

    To find out why, research the cause of phantom traffic jams.
    I thought most phantom traffic jams are caused by a knock on effect when tailgaters break. Does a 10mph speed reduction really cause people to back off and tailgate less? Or are they less scared by their tailgating and don't feel the need to panic break so often?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    Interesting. 4.5min doesn't sound a lot over a single 32mile stretch.
    ...
    And that's the difference in time at the legal maxima. Contrary to intuition, real-world journeys might be faster with a 60 limit, but time will tell. It'll be interesting.


    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    I thought most phantom traffic jams are caused by a knock on effect when tailgaters break. Does a 10mph speed reduction really cause people to back off and tailgate less? Or are they less scared by their tailgating and don't feel the need to panic break so often?
    Yes, and it's been studied and known about for years. The irony is that the person(s) causing the phantom jams are long gone by the time the wave has formed. They've braked, caused a reaction behind, and this progressive reaction has been amplified until a compression wave has appeared. When this happens, traffic stops behaving as particles, and behaves like a wave. Research labs are knee deep in traffic flow research, and all the information points to a more uniform speed = better flow on congested roads.
    Last edited by jinnantonnixx; 7th January 2014 at 12:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jinnantonnixx View Post
    And that's the difference in time at the legal maxima. Contrary to intuition, real-world journeys might be faster with a 60 limit, but time will tell. It'll be interesting.
    I tend to think that it's the longer journeys, such as my norfolk-birmingham run - and longer, that will feel a hit in arrival times. I think over a longer run you have more overall control of your speed and can spend more time nearer the legal maximum. In those instances dropping the upper limit can't help but have a negative impact. Over shorter runs you're probably more at mercy to local traffic flow, peeks and rush hours, so yes maybe dropping the limit if it improved flow could conterintuitively speed up journey times.

    As you say uniform speed = better flow. Dropping the speed limit =/= uniformed speed, just variable speed with a lower upper limit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    "Where we're going we don't need roads" - Doc. Brown 1985
    I was going to say you could goto 88mph and go back to the future however if they are setting the speed to 60mph - that won't happen lol

  10. Thanks to mac_shinobi from:

    CHR1S (7th January 2014)

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    as to it being faster to go at 60 fine at say 8am when there is traffic but at 10pm its not hence why i have no objections to managed motorway like on th m62 and m42? round brum

    Quote Originally Posted by sparkeh View Post
    I doubt it. Surely your satnav rerouted you as they were roadworks and reported to and recorded by whatever organisation your satnav gets it info from.
    A slower speed limit will just mean your satnav will tell you that the speed limit is 60 rather than 70.
    the satnav i would imagine looks at what it "thinks" is the quickest route if the motorway route takes say 20 mins at 60 but an a road takes 15 @ 70 to go from roughly the same points it will divert to the a road as the quickest route (depending on exactly how its calculating the route)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hefferzzzz View Post
    Most towns and cities have train stations though. Use smaller local lorries to deliver from there?
    which generates more traffic in areas you dont want it ie the centre of towns (where most stations are) rather than traffic coming from the motorway to an industrial estate thats 5 mins from the motorway the train goes to centre of the town then drives 15 mins through heavier slower stop start traffic to get to the same place

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    I suspect the pollution levels would be greatly reduced by simply putting average speed cameras along that stretch of the M1. This would have the knock-on benefit of reducing the average speed along that stretch which (given that slower traffic needs less inter-vehicle space) would mean more vehicles could use it at once. Hey presto, congestion reduced.

    This wouldn't pan out though, because people tend to say 'that road's much clearer than it used to be so I'll use it instead of another one".

    It's also interesting to compare the land use vs people carried of a motorway vs a rail line. Cars - especially low occupancy ones - are a terrifically inefficient way to move people, in terms of land and energy / fuel use (hence pollution).

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    Probably been said already but its worth saying again...

    Increase the standard of driving!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CHR1S View Post
    Probably been said already but its worth saying again...

    Increase the standard of driving!!!
    I hear you bro. Everybody should aim to be above average!

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Nope, nothing in there about motorways or cars or speed, or emissions or crashes

    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    The government's suggestion is entirely sensible and in line with current research. Whereas your suggestion is just absurd.
    I take it that you have actually read the 36 page Consultation Document?

    It strikes me as a sneaky attempt to implement more "Managed Motorways" (as per the M42 and M6 near Birmingham) and nothing whatsoever to do with a several year "trial" (FFS!!!) on whether emmissions will reduce (which they will do anyway due to improved car, and hopefully HGV, technology).

    As an aside, i find it sad that in these times of austerity and cutbacks, the Highways Agency are operating from an office in "The Cube" in the middle of Birmingham - which isn't exactly the cheapest the place to be

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    I drive 20 miles on the managed M62 every day. When they were building it (2 years of roadworks) it was limited to 50mph av speed and I was getting 65 to the gallon.. now its managed and usually set at 60/50 its dropped to 55ish. Prob my bad driving and the increase/decrease speed between cameras but if everyone did the same thing that's a fair bit of extra pollution going into the air.
    Last edited by Simcfc73; 7th January 2014 at 09:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    It strikes me as a sneaky attempt to implement more "Managed Motorways" (as per the M42 and M6 near Birmingham) and nothing whatsoever to do with a several year "trial" (FFS!!!) on whether emmissions will reduce (which they will do anyway due to improved car, and hopefully HGV, technology).
    Reductions from improved technology will themselves benefit from the efficiency of even less air drag, that's just physics.
    As an aside, i find it sad that in these times of austerity and cutbacks, the Highways Agency are operating from an office in "The Cube" in the middle of Birmingham - which isn't exactly the cheapest the place to be
    They could move into your point, that would be a cheap place.

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