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General Chat Thread, David Cameron preaching austerity from a golden throne. in General; ...
  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by sted View Post
    because does what they do actually matter?

    I fail to see how from a personal level im better or worse off with this lot of chimps in power compared to the last lot
    I can see from a personal matter exactly how much worse-off I am. Currently it's to the tune of about £400/month compared to last year, despite a reasonable pay rise through changing jobs. This is down to the wonderful tax policy changes.

    In fairness on the banquet front though, it was funded by a private company (the Corporation of London, possibly the oldest company in the world and almost certainly one of the richest) rather than the taxpayer. Not that a four-course banquet with gilded chairs is ever an appropriate place to talk about how we all need to tighten our belts.

    But hey, at least he didn't trash the place and do a runner.

  2. #32

    CHR1S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foofighterjim View Post
    Yet they wonder why the general public is disillusioned with politics.
    I consider myself to be at 30, well off (as in I dont struggle to make ends meet), other than my recycling bins going missing I find I have no need to involve my local MP/Councillor (who happens to be a good friend of mine).

    I have absolutely no interest in politics whatsoever, to the point that I cant even be bothered to vote (yes that may annoy some of you). Why? Because in my eyes, whoever I vote for - nothing changes.
    If your picking the best of a bad bunch, why pick at all?

    I realise that my friend being a Councillor (and probably an MP soon) makes my views a little strange, hes a good honest man, who I believe will make a difference and be the start of a new generation of politics. However, if I ever did vote for him, it would still only be because he was my mate.

  3. #33
    Sdrawkcab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesb View Post
    But hey, at least he didn't trash the place and do a runner.
    No, he and his Bullingdon mates only do that to restaurants where normal people are eating. It's okay though, they throw £200 in cash on the floor to compensate the proles for their trouble.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHR1S View Post
    I have absolutely no interest in politics whatsoever, to the point that I cant even be bothered to vote (yes that may annoy some of you). Why? Because in my eyes, whoever I vote for - nothing changes.
    If your picking the best of a bad bunch, why pick at all?
    Absolutely agree with this, though I would urge you to go to the polling booth and spoil your ballot if this is how you feel. Rather than just apathetically doing nothing, get in there and make your voice heard, even if what you're saying is "I don't want any of these people".

  5. Thanks to Sdrawkcab from:

    CHR1S (14th November 2013)

  6. #35

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    David Cameron preaching austerity from a golden throne.-brewster.jpg

    Seems quite fitting

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    tmcd35 (14th November 2013)

  8. #36


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    I fail to see how can anyone can genuinely have no interest in politics. Mostly that's just a failure by people to consider the implications of the word - politics is of or relating to government or governance. Even not liking the political parties or believing there is no difference between them betrays an interest in politics (and the more you can point out the number of policies where you can 't get a cigarette paper between the parties policies, the more interested you must be). Someone who genuinely had no interest simply wouldn't know or care what the difference was. They wouldn't care if Stalin or Ghandi was head of state and whether they were elected or not - they wouldn't even know to ask the question.

  9. #37

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    @pcstru - its a mixture of selfishness and ignorance being bliss...

  10. #38

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    It's all an illusion, this democracy. Our choice of parties ranges from identikit "grab what they can while they have the power" to stark raving bonkers "if we get in everyone else can get out!" nutters. If they don't get the outcome they want, they just form a new party and take your votes with them. Ultimately the country is run by House of Lords, none of which were voted for by Joe Public. But so long as we get to put a little tick in a box every few years we can proudly call ourselves a democracy
    I refuse to buy into this kind of anti-political cynicism, maybe that makes me naive - I don't know.

    Although at times you can't put a fag paper between the main two parties, there are real differences and they are noticable. To a certain degree they are all Eton educated toffs, in it for themselves - but I do believe most are doing what they do out of some sense of righteousness and ideology. The bedroom tax is a quick and simple example.

    The problem from the voting booth is one of numbers and scale. Your one voter out of tens of thousands in a constiuency so it's easy to become disillusioned in your vote counting, especially if your preference isn't in line with the local majority. The first past the post system means the party with the most votes doesn't necersarrily win power. Andthe job and decisions of central governement are often not the ones that effect you locally, yet we take even less interest in local politics.

  11. #39


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    It's the same the whole world over,
    It's the poor that get the blame,
    It's the rich that get the pleasure,
    Ain't it all a bloody shame.




    That's it.

    That's all it is.


    No political system, flavour or -ism will ever change it. It's been happening for millenia, I'm sure the Pharoahs of Ancient Egypt (for example) weren't particularly keen on 'distribution of wealth', and I'm positive the old Soviet Politburo didn't eat beetroot soup all the time just to show solidarity with the 'Comrades'.


    Occasionally, you get the odd enterprising soul who manages to make a million.....but, pragmatically, what's a million these days? When the median starting price of a three-bedroom house in some Shire Counties towns is over half a million, the answer is 'Not much, really', even though I wouldn't turn my nose up at a million quid.


    That's how I see it, anyway.


    Better luck next lifetime, I guess

  12. #40


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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    No political system, flavour or -ism will ever change it. It's been happening for millenia, I'm sure the Pharoahs of Ancient Egypt (for example) weren't particularly keen on 'distribution of wealth', and I'm positive the old Soviet Politburo didn't eat beetroot soup all the time just to show solidarity with the 'Comrades'.
    That's right. Nothing changes. Children still die up the chimneys, slaves in the fields, women don't have the vote, average life expectancy is mid 40's, most people fear their mandatory years of national service, few people will ever experience the luxury of owning a car, having an indoor toilet, sending their children to school, employers can just fire you on the spot and you have no rights, etc. Nothing changes.

    I'm so disillusioned with the UK I'm going to emigrate to North Korea. It's not as if politics has any bearing on life. They are all the same.

  13. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    I refuse to buy into this kind of anti-political cynicism, maybe that makes me naive - I don't know.

    Although at times you can't put a fag paper between the main two parties, there are real differences and they are noticable.
    I wouldn't say you're naive but let me ask you this; can you hand on heart say you support any of our political parties? There are aspects of each I agree with and many I don't. The problem is, what they say they'll do and what they actually do when they get in to power are very, very different things. That's why I'm disillusioned by it all. IMO, they should be held to account for all the promises they make during election time and should give schedules. If they get in to power, they should be expected to deliver those promises within 6 months of when they said they would and if they don't, we should hold a re-election. At the moment they could tell you they'd buy each and every one of us a golden chair and a 5 course meal if they got in and there's not a damn thing we could do when they didn't deliver.

    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    To a certain degree they are all Eton educated toffs, in it for themselves - but I do believe most are doing what they do out of some sense of righteousness and ideology. The bedroom tax is a quick and simple example.
    I don't believe they do. The vast majority are career politicians. They've never worked in the environment they're in charge of (hell, most of them have never worked anywhere!) so how on Earth do they think they know what's best? We wouldn't trust someone with no experience to manage a shop yet we're happy to let them run the country!

    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    The problem from the voting booth is one of numbers and scale. Your one voter out of tens of thousands in a constiuency so it's easy to become disillusioned in your vote counting, especially if your preference isn't in line with the local majority. The first past the post system means the party with the most votes doesn't necersarrily win power. Andthe job and decisions of central governement are often not the ones that effect you locally, yet we take even less interest in local politics.
    No, what makes me disillusioned with politics (or at least our current parties) is the constant false promises, the failure to take responsibility for any wrong doing, ridiculous hashed out ideas like bedroom tax (you have to pay a tax if you have "spare" bedrooms in a council property, but there are no smaller properties available for you to be moved in to; may as well have just upped council rent for all the good that has done), ideas like only counting the first seating of an exam in school results (yeah OK the kid can resit and it will count for them, but how many cash strapped schools are going to pay for a second chance for a child when it is of no benefit to the school?). I'm disillusioned because we are being run by a party that were never elected - I know it's all above board and legal and whatnot but who the hell decided that was OK?! Two parties who disagree on so many issues it's laughable forming to get just enough votes between them to claim the majority wanted them in power - BS! They weren't on my ballot paper!

    Maybe I'm the naive one for thinking it could work any other way, all I know is this system stinks.

  14. #42


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    The problem is that the prime objective of any government is to get re-elected.

    If a government can 'Do Some Good' along the way, fine. If not, well, that was never the objective, anyway.

  15. #43


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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    If they get in to power, they should be expected to deliver those promises within 6 months of when they said they would and if they don't, we should hold a re-election. At the moment they could tell you they'd buy each and every one of us a golden chair and a 5 course meal if they got in and there's not a damn thing we could do when they didn't deliver.
    I'm sympathetic to that view but there are a couple of problems. What if you make a promise and a) circumstances change or b) the previous government was telling porkies, so your information was wrong? In either case, doing what was promised might be disastrous.

    Also it's not quite true that we can can't do a damn thing, at the very least we can vote them out next time round. The problem then is the limited options for what to replace them with.

  16. #44

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    I wouldn't say you're naive but let me ask you this; can you hand on heart say you support any of our political parties? There are aspects of each I agree with and many I don't.
    Having read around and looked at the different parties, I'd say my believes are most closely aligned with the Liberal Democrates. It's not an exact fit, but close enough. I tend to agree with Labour policies more than Tory policies. Looked at some of the fringe parties but none have grab my attention as being vote worthy.

    I don't believe they do. The vast majority are career politicians. They've never worked in the environment they're in charge of (hell, most of them have never worked anywhere!) so how on Earth do they think they know what's best? We wouldn't trust someone with no experience to manage a shop yet we're happy to let them run the country!
    Oh I agree, totally. Note, I didn't say anything about experience - just righteousness and ideology. When you actually look at politicians wages, and then look at their qualifications, I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that most are really doing it for the money. Not when a career in Law, Banking or Accounting could easily net them more...

    Maybe I'm the naive one for thinking it could work any other way, all I know is this system stinks.
    I agree the current system does stink. But it's something that's never going to change while the majority are brainwashed into thinking there are only two parties worth voting for and voting for anyone else is a waste. The rise of parties like UKIP and the Greens suggest to me that the nation is getting disallusioned of two party politics. Sure, it's not something that's going to change quickly, like at the next election, but I think if more people took an interested and used their vote for what they actually believed in rather than "got to be one of the main two" we'd see the kind of change you are after.

    Either that - or we are just a Tory nation and those of us who complain really are in the minority?


    Back on topic - That was a twat move by DC. Seriously, 4 course meal, gold chairs and a lecture on austerity. Beggers believe. I'd like to say Labour wouldn't have made such a bone head move (oh, they'd have had the 4 course meal and gold chairs mind), but that's just because their answer is stuff austerity and throw it all on the credit card - eek.

  17. #45


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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    Yes and no. As far as I can see *growth* of the debt peaked in 2011, with debt growing by £150 billion, from £760bn to £910bn. This year debt is forecast to grow by £120bn, from £1.04trillion to £1.16tn.
    So, in the interests of discussion, is that good or bad?
    I wish someone would bite on this and give some kind of opinion. I keep seeing that this kind of debt is bad, unacceptable and we must respond with austerity measures. Now I personally owe about several hundred % of my GDP, but I'm not laying off the chickens [*1] and begging the German neighbours to bail me out. Economics is fundamental to politics and governance and is one of the main political areas where we feel the effects where it hurts. But it seems extremely difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff - there's more bollocks than a white paper on cloud computing sponsored by Amazon.

    [*1] - Ok, I will get me coat.

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