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General Chat Thread, RANT - Fed up with life here in the UK in General; Originally Posted by unixman_again @ Sdrawkcab did you watch this? On Benefits & Proud Mate that is a channel 5 ...
  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by unixman_again View Post
    @Sdrawkcab did you watch this? On Benefits & Proud
    Mate that is a channel 5 show which has been designed to cause controversy and hype in order to boost ratings. They're just trying to make a quick buck off the back of this news "story". It's like getting your opinions about people who live in Essex by watching TOWIE.

    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Sorry, what? How does my not liking 1.5% of all homes in the UK never having had a job result in wanting them to sleep on the street?
    Sorry, I was being pretty hyperbolic here. It was just the way you said "far far too many" which irked me somewhat.

    Working for benefits shouldn't be a problem either... There is a massive amount of public infrastructure that needs maintenance but the country lacks funds to do so whilst paying everyone benefits.
    This is something I have a problem with too. If you want people to work, you should pay them a fair wage for the time they worked. Anything less (like our current Workfair scheme) is basically slave labour and should be illegal.

    If you want to attack the benefits system, here's a major problem with it: It takes 6 weeks to process a benefits application. This means that most people on benefits are unwilling to take on temp jobs, since they could actually end up being worse off due of the amount of time they'd have to wait to get back on benefits after the temp contract is finished. According to this, at least half the jobs created since 2010 have been temporary (I'm actually pretty sure that over the last year the figure is actually higher than that, but I couldn't find any articles to back that claim up in the short time I wrote this post).

    The fact is, there just aren't enough permanent jobs for people at the moment. If we're going to continue down this trend of employing temps over creating permanent positions, we need to change our benefits system to make taking temporary jobs a viable option for people on benefits.
    Last edited by Sdrawkcab; 24th October 2013 at 04:31 PM.

  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    What would that do to the economy? If the government can do infrastructure maintenance using the unemployed then they won't need workers to do that. So you will end up with more unemployed and presumably then you will put them to work on something else - which will pull the rug out from under another market and you will have more unemployed. Sounds like a winning plan.

    A big dent could be put in the welfare bill by raising the minimum wage to pull more working people off benefits - effectively stop subsidising businesses who refuse to pay a living wage in return for labour. Of course, again that might impact the profits of wealthy tax dodgers, so it's probably a non starter. It's always nice to know my taxes are helping McDonalds serve their burgers cheaply.
    It would improve the economy. The maintenance isn't being done now, as no-one can afford to do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    It would improve the economy. The maintenance isn't being done now, as no-one can afford to do it.
    I think you mean it would improve infrastructure. At best it would do nothing for the economy. You would still be paying people, they would just be doing something (and while doing that, unable to look for work). At worst you have just undercut the minimum wage. Companies that would do the work (eventually) wouldn't do the work because it had been done and they couldn't compete anyway unless they themselves reduced the wages they pay down to the same levels as benefits.

    I think I said in my first post "nice to see another race to the bottom". I sympathise with the OP - the economic situation is becoming increasingly desperate for many people. I hope the solution to being miserable isn't to make someone else with even less, even worse off.
    Last edited by pcstru; 24th October 2013 at 04:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    I hope the solution to being miserable isn't to make someone else with even less, even worse off.
    Amen to that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sdrawkcab View Post
    Amen to that.
    Agreed.

    Although I'd happily see some of these 30k pa claimants a bit worse off...!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sdrawkcab View Post
    Once again this is anecdotal evidence. You are literally making a snap judgement based on how these people look. This is classism at its absolute worst, and you don't even seem to know you're doing it.
    The point I was trying to make is, where is the incentive to raise your earnings when you can live more comfortably on lower income. I'm not making snap judgements, I was referring to people I know personally.

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    The truth is that we have been living on borrowed time. I just about remember food rationing and petrol rationing after the Suez and Oil crisis in 1973. Three day week and regular power cuts, it was tough but we survived. If necessary, we even put on an extra jumper. For the last 15 years or so, we have been in a Wonga type society that is simply not sustainable. Make the most of what we have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DPrince View Post
    Although I'd happily see some of these 30k pa claimants a bit worse off...!
    How much of that is housing benefit and going straight into the pockets of private landlords? This is another cost of not building housing, allowing house prices to over-inflate and rents to spiral in proportion. It's effectively a state subsidy of private landlords - they pay the mortgage from welfare and reap the rewards of capital gains as house prices climb. It's not the unemployed tenants who make any gain in the long term. Probably the only thing the two have in common is the amount of tax they pay!

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    The UK is still one of the best places to live in the World. Definitely in the top 5 all things considered. The 'race to the bottom' isn't just affecting the UK. Its a worldwide transition of the very rich cosying up to the poor to work for them for less than we would.

    The lower middle especially are the ones that get squeezed. As pointed out on here that's sadly the way its always been. The productive and aspiring need to be kept at a certain level to keep a certain political class at a safe distance from it all. For all the wrong that Mrs T did, she gave a section of the skilled working class to have a good go at usurping the established and smug quintessential middle class from their complacency. No wonder New Labour's champagne socialists spend 12 years getting their own back at Thatchers working class winners

    But as for emigrating, it all depends on your expectations from life. If you like warmer weather then obviously the UK isn't the country for you. If you like space and quality of life, then maybe rural Canada is your natural home. If you are hard working, well qualified and want a big house with a high standard of living then the USA may be of interest. All depends on your outlook.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laserblazer View Post
    The truth is that we have been living on borrowed time. I just about remember food rationing and petrol rationing after the Suez and Oil crisis in 1973. Three day week and regular power cuts, it was tough but we survived. If necessary, we even put on an extra jumper. For the last 15 years or so, we have been in a Wonga type society that is simply not sustainable. Make the most of what we have.
    I think you're right there - most people have forgotten how basic life was in UK until very recently - without getting all Monty Python Yorkshireman about it - when I was young, having a car was fairly unusual, only a moderate %age had a phone, foreign holidays of anything more than the very basic package variety were unknown to most people. Food was fairly local and seasonal - no strawberries in the winter etc and life for a lot of people was a grind.

    The North Sea oil bubble saved the country from catastrophy in the 80's, but alas, we just pi55ed it all away without any long term plan or benefit - we've had the Saturday Night - now its Sunday Morning and the outlook is bleak for a lot of people.

    The current economic policy seems bizarre to me - keeping interest rates to nearly zero isn't going to help in the long term - the only way our debts are going to reduce to a manageable size is if inflation rates are high and erode the value of the debt - we've been living beyond our means for decades - I remember when the balance of trade figures were regularly reported on the news - and negative values were perceived as a "bad" thing - nowadays they are rarely mentioned - we'd rather look the other way and think that all our cash flowing out of the country to China or wherever is a "good" thing as the prices of goods are "cheaper" - trouble is once that money is spent and gone - that's it - it doesn't recirculate through the economy as it did when we bought things that were manufactured here.

    Ach - enough of this shilly shally - its time for bed!

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    the recent raising of the tuition fee threshold has been a huge hit to those on middle incomes, the uk was already pretty high up the list of developed countries when it came to avg. tution fees and proportion of those fees paid by the student...the govt. will use the argument about university graduates on avg. doing better over their lifetime in the job market, but then there has to be a balance between needing future graduates with key skills entering the workforce and the disincentives of yet another tax on career progression/increased earnings.

    I just don't like the idea of people being mortgaged for years to come based on the perceived benefit they receive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by superatticman View Post
    The UK is still one of the best places to live in the World. Definitely in the top 5 all things considered.
    We really aren't, not even close.

    List of countries by Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The UN ranks all countries on a Human Development Index based on several different factors which all affect quality of life. According to them, we are 26th on that list. Spend 5 minutes researching social welfare in places like Sweden and Denmark and you'll see how awful ours is by comparison.

    If we don't do something soon, we're going to end up like the USA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sdrawkcab View Post
    We really aren't, not even close.

    List of countries by Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The UN ranks all countries on a Human Development Index based on several different factors which all affect quality of life. According to them, we are 26th on that list. Spend 5 minutes researching social welfare in places like Sweden and Denmark and you'll see how awful ours is by comparison.

    If we don't do something soon, we're going to end up like the USA.
    I'm moving to Norway or Switzerland. Cya all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnyknight View Post
    I'm moving to Norway or Switzerland. Cya all.
    Norway is pretty damn great, see: This Country Beats France - YouTube

    OK it's a Micheal Moore clip, so you have to take some of what he says with a pinch of salt. Still, shows how much better it could be if you had a government who actually acts in the interests of the people.

  15. #105

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    Norway is a great country to visit, I suspect it would be a great place to live too. Their leaders haven't squandered their oil revenues like ours have. They have banked a lot of it & spent a huge amount on infrastructure projects. They are heavily into hydroelectric power generation. Their fishing industry is booming as they have managed and conserved their fish stocks inside their vast territorial waters.

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