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General Chat Thread, RANT - Fed up with life here in the UK in General; Originally Posted by sted As im sure we all want to pay the minimum tax we can so do companies. ...
  1. #61


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    Quote Originally Posted by sted View Post
    As im sure we all want to pay the minimum tax we can so do companies.
    Do we? I want to pay the *right* amount of tax, a *fair* amount of tax, an amount that is proportional to the benefits I expect 'society' to deliver. I'm not a company who's sole purpose is to maximise revenue, so I very much hope my motivations are (and should be) different.

    You could equally argue that these so called benefits scroungers are just maximising their entitlements. If they didn't lack the motivation and capability they might grow up to become the carrion scroungers of society, otherwise known as wealthy tax evaders.

  2. #62

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by APMerry View Post
    It really isn't a minority and it is frustrating. Certainly in the area I live, I see these people with 3/4 kids living in a council house that would cost upwards of £300k and they're renting it for the price of a studio flat. The kids have a blackberry/iphone/expensive clothes and there's a massive 60inch flat screen in the living room with sky. Me and my Mrs cant even get a mortgage for anything with more than 1 bedroom, the thought of having a house and family seems completely unachievable. I don't know anyone my age with a house that hasn't had help from their parents, something that I'm not going to get.

    I can only see it getting worse and more people ending up living off benefits and living above their means.
    You've just (almost) described my sister! 3 bed council house. 4 Kids of school age. Each have iPhones, TV's, games consoles, etc. It's terrible! I can bearly afford to pay the mortgage on my 2bed flat 'course living like that they must be living off benefits, scrounging off society.

    Does it change your opinion if I told you he (her Husband) is a nurse and she is a degree educated Radographer?

    Outward apparences of these council dwellers with multiple offspring are not always what they seem!

    So they were once in a position to qualify for a council property - good for them. I wish I was too, much prefer that to private rent or mortgage. Your problem isn't them, the house they live in or the phones their kids have. Your problem is the fact that successive govenements have refused to properly invest in social housing since Thatcher brought in the right to buy 30 years ago. This has driven house prices and private rent prices to the point of stupidity they are at now.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    Your problem isn't them, the house they live in or the phones their kids have. Your problem is the fact that successive govenements have refused to properly invest in social housing since Thatcher brought in the right to buy 30 years ago. This has driven house prices and private rent prices to the point of stupidity they are at now.
    I agree with you, but my problem is with them - part of the problem with the lack of social (and other) housing is because we have reasonably well-paid professionals living in social housing, which was never really intended for them. I don't particularly blame them (as you say: Good for them), but the system across the board is f'ed up.

    The reality is that there is fault at both ends of the spectrum. The rich seem to get ever richer in a world of dwindling resources and opportunities. Corporations crowd out the smaller operatives, and never mind small businesses getting a foot on the ladder; usually the ladder has been removed. The benefits system is no longer the safety net that it used to be - it is now designed to support a relatively comfortable way of life pretty much indefinitely. I'm not saying that benefit claimants have it particularly easy, but they certainly don't have it particularly hard.
    I actually used to work for a housing benefits department, and have many interesting memories. One that comes to mind is interviewing a woman who was about to be evicted for not paying her housing association rent (she had collected the benefit, but not paid it to the housing association). When asked why she hadn't paid it, she said "I bought my kids a tv for their bedroom". When I pointed out that her priorities were probably not correct, she replied "You wouldn't let your kids go without a tv, would you? Why should mine?".
    Pretty much sums it up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    Absolutely - I can't stand all this moralising carp handed out to people like Jimmy Carr. Most of us would pay less tax if we could - this is why governments are always trumpeting tax cuts whilst increasing hidden taxes - so sneering at people who find legal loopholes is silly.
    It is up to the government to STOP this from happening
    Are you implying then that the majority of society today are morally corrupt?

    Then yes, would agree with you. I wouldn't dream of looking to pay less than my fair share of tax because I understand what the money in the treasury is used for. I understand that health and education rely heavily on this, so why should I look to deny them funds. Which is why every company then I know which avoids corporation tax in the UK never gets my custom. I also support the High Street. I do not care if some gadget costs £50 extra in a High Street store. I am not suckered into the "must have it and have it now" mentality. Human race needs to learn not to attach a monetary label to everything and everyone.

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    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    a *fair* amount of tax
    That's a subjective amount.

    To me "fair" is the exact amount I have to pay. No more, no less.

    If I can legally pay less, then I will. And no amount of the Government whining "that's not faaaiiiir" will change it.

    You don't like the rules, change them.


    Quote Originally Posted by andyturpie View Post
    I do not care if some gadget costs £50 extra in a High Street store.
    ...

    I don't earn anywhere near enough to throw money doing that.

    Though, I wouldn't want to. Why would you pay extra when you don't have to? WHY? This is why high street shops are doing badly, because they're MORE EXPENSIVE.

    Quote Originally Posted by andyturpie View Post
    I am not suckered into the "must have it and have it now" mentality.
    Surely, paying extra to get it from a shop straight away means you are.

    I spend less online and get free delivery, but I have to wait a bit longer. [Usually 3 - 5 days.]
    Last edited by X-13; 24th October 2013 at 02:33 PM.

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  7. #66

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    Corporations have no morals like people do. Corporations (mostly) operate within the law and take advantage of any means of maximising revenue & shareholder profit. You can and should expect them to behave in an honest, legal way but don't expect decency or fairness unless it is good for business!

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    Quote Originally Posted by APMerry View Post
    It really isn't a minority and it is frustrating. Certainly in the area I live, I see these people with 3/4 kids living in a council house that would cost upwards of £300k and they're renting it for the price of a studio flat. The kids have a blackberry/iphone/expensive clothes and there's a massive 60inch flat screen in the living room with sky. Me and my Mrs cant even get a mortgage for anything with more than 1 bedroom, the thought of having a house and family seems completely unachievable. I don't know anyone my age with a house that hasn't had help from their parents, something that I'm not going to get.
    Once again this is anecdotal evidence. You are literally making a snap judgement based on how these people look. This is classism at its absolute worst, and you don't even seem to know you're doing it.

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    Nephilim, I know what you mean, i'm classed as a middle earner and I also can only claim tax credits and child benefit. We struggle, but we do without for the kids benefit which is what I see most people doing these days. I have family members who rub it in my face that they arnt working, claim every benefit going and get more than me a month, they earn more than me a month in more ways than one as they are eligible for more than me because I have a job and pay my taxes. Which January is coming, I'm going to have a high tax bill. Which I definitely cannot afford. I dont have a car neither does my wife, neither of us have a full driving license. This is simply because we dont see a point in passing our driving test as we couldn't afford a car anyway. I get penalized when applying for jobs because they require a 'Full UK Driving License'. I dont even bother applying for other jobs if I see that in the job description, which these days is at least 75% of jobs.
    We are moving house, we are moving furniture and that is mainly it. We can afford to pay anymore for anything else to be picked up as removal companies charge by the hour. As it is, I'm worrying that we are going to go over the allotted 2 hours and will get charged extra as I cannot afford it. Leaving quite alot of stuff behind means A) Less deposit back because the landlord is going to have to get someone to clear the property and B) IM going to have to buy things again. Friends / Family can't really help because I cant afford to give them the fuel money and would be unfair to expect someone to help us for free. So why Am I moving if I cant afford it, the property we are moving into belongs to a friend, so it's cheaper rent and a much bigger property, it has a nice brand new boiler which will reduce on the bills. We need more space for the kids.
    Its unfair that we get treat like this and have to make drastic changes to our lives, but needs must I guess.



    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    In full time work, it isn't a problem, hell earning anything over £700 a month for me, means we can live without worry, and pay all bills. We can't afford a new/2nd hand car, so we are making do with the mrs car. She works from home now so thats a bonus, our internet is paid for by her company, and we're not shelling out in fuel anywhere near as much. I have a disabled bus pass which is a godsend as if we need to go to tesco/asda/morrisons for milk or washing powder, its more economical for me to go 45 mins on the bus than the mrs 15 mins in the car.

    With the £700 I want to earn a month, this would pay for heating so we have it on more than an hour a day, stock up our fridge and pantry so that we have both fresh and long life food readily available and that the mrs and I can afford to eat more than once a day. We'd pay back people that have loaned us money. And we save enough to buy a decent car which has better fuel economy and lower tax bracket than our current one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    That's a subjective amount.

    To me "fair" is the exact amount I have to pay. No more, no less.

    If I can legally pay less, then I will. And no amount of the Government whining "that's not faaaiiiir" will change it.

    You don't like the rules, change them.




    ...

    I don't earn anywhere near enough to throw money doing that.

    Though, I wouldn't want to. Why would you pay extra when you don't have to? WHY? This is why high street shops are doing badly, because they're MORE EXPENSIVE.



    Surely, paying extra to get it from a shop straight away means you are.

    I spend less online and get free delivery, but I have to wait a bit longer. [Usually 3 - 5 days.]

    What I meant it to sound was I am not a browser or impulsive shopper. I could say save for 2 months and buy say a NAS box off Amazon for say £200 but if I know a local High Street store was selling them at £230 and I had to wait until next months payday to put the extra £30 to get it from the High Street, knowing that the money was going to a company that pays its dues morally, employs its staff on decent T's and C's then that can help make society richer more than ways than just fiscally.

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    And guess what..... Your next renewal will also be £1500 quid less as they go on how much you earned the year before. Or thats what happened to me anyway.



    Quote Originally Posted by FragglePete View Post
    Feeling the pinch here; three kids and feel my income just doesn't stretch as far as it did. Each month seems to be a major bill, insurance, etc that just gobbles up the chance to save or treat yourself with.

    My wife does Floristry work privately, registered with the Tax man and does Tax Return each year. Last year she made about £1500 in profit and of course this was declared to the Child Tax Credit and what happens? Child Tax Credit gets reduce by £1500 ! So, where's the incentive to actually get of your butt and do something for yourself?

    Pete

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    @Sdrawkcab you have yet to acknowledge any legitimate instances where this is proven and not snap judgements as you put it.

    I would be more than happy to tell you many incidents that I have witnessed first had that more than backs up at least my own claims.

    @andyturpie In my experience its not just the cost of the product thats increased. There is your travel costs, parking costs, time, so in reality that item that is £50 more on the highstreet is now £60+ more expensive than buying online. Then there is the other factor with highstreet shopping.... other people .....grrrrr
    Last edited by CHR1S; 24th October 2013 at 03:04 PM.

  13. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by andyturpie View Post
    employs its staff on decent T's and C's then that can help make society richer more than ways than just fiscally.
    Unless you've worked there, or know people that do, you don't know they do treat staff fairly.

    My sister worked somewhere that literally locked staff in the store to try and force them to work extra.

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    Its a joke. You all realize you have all been conned by the torries ? With all this austerity we owe more than than we ever did. Suppose thats labours fault as well.

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    @Galway each party is as bad as the next.

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    Even if you want to use the high street to shop these days, the choices are dwindling, especially for white goods & electricals. If you are lucky, a store may have something of interest on display, but they don't carry the stock.

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