View Poll Results: Who is responsible and what action should be taken?

Voters
17. This poll is closed
  • Government

    2 11.76%
  • ISP

    0 0%
  • Facebook

    5 29.41%
  • Parents

    11 64.71%
  • Children

    3 17.65%
  • Facebook permanently blocked

    1 5.88%
  • Facebook block violent videos

    8 47.06%
  • Facebook issue 5 second warnings before watching the video

    4 23.53%
  • No action should be taken

    0 0%
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General Chat Thread, Facebook - Where do you stand? in General; Policy change again BBC News - Facebook makes U-turn over decapitation video clip Hard to keep up!...
  1. #16

    sparkeh's Avatar
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  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sdrawkcab View Post
    Take responsibility for your own children instead of expecting corporations to do it for you. People are too quick to point the finger at others rather than thinking about their own responsibilities. If you don't want your children seeing this stuff on facebook, don't let them have a facebook.
    Ok here's a question, why do you think its acceptable for FB to host videos of execution?

  3. Thanks to sparkeh from:

    Rawns (23rd October 2013)

  4. #18

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    The biggest problem I have over it this is the lack of consistency in their censorship. Ultimately Facebook is a business and so long as the content they are hosting is not illegal (see below) it's up to them what they do and don't allow. At the moment they seem to lurch back and forth over allowing this sort of violent content while consistently and aggressively censoring even partial nudity such as images of breastfeeding. In my view this a reflection on the shambolic and hypocritical nature of their acceptable content policies, and in a wider context, US public opinion over acceptable content at all. It's worth noting that a perusal of US news websites last night seemed to indicate there has not been as vocal an outcry stateside.

    Ultimately, Facebook need to come up with sensible policies, apply them consistently, and be honest with users about what sort of business they are. Raking in cash from children using their games platform while allowing this sort of disgusting content is not on in my book.

    As for legal jurisdiction, one of the links @plexer mentioned is relatively clear:

    In the case of R v Waddon the Court of Appeal held that the content of American websites could come under British jurisdiction when downloaded in the United Kingdom.
    It's difficult to see why this isn't therefore being pursued legally. I can only suspect that the army of lawyers Facebook has at its disposal is giving the CPS pause over whether they have a realistic chance of winning.
    Last edited by AngryTechnician; 23rd October 2013 at 09:39 AM.

  5. #19

    localzuk's Avatar
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    The UK has pretty clear obscene publications law and I really don't understand how they can safely allow this as they have a UK subsidiary don't they? Why isn't the government pursuing it?

  6. #20

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    The UK has pretty clear obscene publications law and I really don't understand how they can safely allow this as they have a UK subsidiary don't they? Why isn't the government pursuing it?
    I agree with this, though not really the governements job. Who is in charge or policing the Obscene Publications Acts and why are they not pursuing a court order to have Facebook, at the very least, block this content from access in the UK?

  7. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkeh View Post
    So social/moral conscience has no place here?
    No. Because things that are socially/morally unacceptable change.

    As long as it isn't illegal it's fine.

    It's also to do with context. I don't give a flying whatsit about your kids when I'm trying to read a news article and it's getting blocked because of content filters.

    Quote Originally Posted by sparkeh View Post
    Depends on the kind of society we want to build really, I would hope we lived in a world where FB might think that hosting videos of executions wasn't a good thing to do, rather than just a free for all and push the blame onto the parents. Its not just kids though is it, this kind of stuff I horrible for anyone to watch.
    I want to live in a society where using "think of the children" as an argument to censor things gets you a slap.

    Quote Originally Posted by sparkeh View Post
    Ok here's a question, why do you think its acceptable for FB to host videos of execution?
    The real question is why you think it's acceptable for adults to be hit with restrictions because other people can't be bothered to supervise their own children.

  8. #22

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    I agree with this, though not really the governements job. Who is in charge or policing the Obscene Publications Acts and why are they not pursuing a court order to have Facebook, at the very least, block this content from access in the UK?
    Things like this fall onto the shoulders of the Home Secretary and the Director of Public Prosecutions I think. Maybe the new National Crime Agency would be involved now, as it is outside the remit of any single police force?

  9. #23

    sparkeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    No. Because things that are socially/morally unacceptable change.
    What...so we allow everything because one day it might be acceptable?!
    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    As long as it isn't illegal it's fine.
    Well there's debate about whether there are legal.
    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    It's also to do with context. I don't give a flying whatsit about your kids when I'm trying to read a news article and it's getting blocked because of content filters.
    So when you are reading an article about a woman being decapitated its not enough to know it happened, you have to see it as well? For what purpose?
    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    I want to live in a society where using "think of the children" as an argument to censor things gets you a slap.
    You say it like protecting children is a bad thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    The real question is why you think it's acceptable for adults to be hit with restrictions because other people can't be bothered to supervise their own children.
    No that wasn't the question, the question was 'why do you think its acceptable for FB to host videos of execution?' Which hasn't been answered.

    Incidently I do think that parents bear a responsibilty but we shouldn't absolve FB of all responsibility either.
    Last edited by sparkeh; 23rd October 2013 at 09:55 AM.

  10. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Things like this fall onto the shoulders of the Home Secretary and the Director of Public Prosecutions I think. Maybe the new National Crime Agency would be involved now, as it is outside the remit of any single police force?
    I suppose we're very carefully stepping around the other can of worms in this subject. Should ISP's filter your Internet access for content that is illegal in the UK? And if not the ISP, should there be a great firewall of GB that does that job? (didn't a chineese firm win a contract with GHCQ or some-such to provide this?).

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    Really? It's Facebook's job to supervise your kids on the internet?

    They're just a social media platform. They provide a service and it isn't childcare. Nor is it content filtering.


    I'm sure there's a lot of adult sites with as many under age users. That doesn't mean they have to remove content because a child may or may not see it.

    Social media is [almost] entirely user generated. There's ALWAYS a chance you're going to see something like this and if, as a parent, you don't want your kids seeing it. That's YOUR problem.

    ~Disclaimer: None of this is a personal attack. I'm using "you" to refer to parents in general.~
    This is not a great argument to be honest, yes children sign up to adult sites, yes that is down to parents knowing what their kids are doing. Facebook is NOT an adult only site, it's T&C's allow children (yes 13 year old's are still children) to create accounts and therefore FB DO have a duty of care to protect children from this content. That is before you go down the road that what FaceBook are hosting are essentially snuff video's, which is illegal in the UK.

  12. 3 Thanks to Disease:

    JoeBloggs (23rd October 2013), Rawns (23rd October 2013)

  13. #26
    CAM
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    This isn't anything new, there have been plenty of other sites from the days when BBS was king. Difference is content is now pushed to users instead of the old days of pulling users to the content. Also consider content like this is used to spread Facebook worms.

  14. #27

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    I am of the opinion, groups should have age limits, and proper categorisation. There should also be a limit on the videos posted, whilst I personally have no problem with the video described, I can see why others would. They *should* moderate these things, but do you realise just how many videos get posted and how many staff there are to cover each country?

    When I applied for FB, there was a total of 24 staff for the entire of the UK, and only 2 were for reported posts/videos/pictures etc. Now cross that with roughly 40 million UK users, not an easy task!

  15. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    Really? It's Facebook's job to supervise your kids on the internet?

    They're just a social media platform. They provide a service and it isn't childcare. Nor is it content filtering.


    I'm sure there's a lot of adult sites with as many under age users. That doesn't mean they have to remove content because a child may or may not see it.

    Social media is [almost] entirely user generated. There's ALWAYS a chance you're going to see something like this and if, as a parent, you don't want your kids seeing it. That's YOUR problem.

    ~Disclaimer: None of this is a personal attack. I'm using "you" to refer to parents in general.~
    I am with X-13 on this one, Facebook is a social network website which allows users to upload anything or link to anything and broadcast it in groups and to friends. Personally I think anyone under 16 shouldn't have a Facebook account and anyone 16+ should be mature enough to click the "report this". This is why parents go down the line of setting up their own filtering and prevent their kids for using sites like Facebook/Youtube.

    The only solution Facebook can provide is that it authorises every picture, video and link which means users will have to wait for their uploaded content. If Facebook needs to take more responsibility for the content it holds, then surely users (especially parents and schools) should take more responsibility in what children have access to.

  16. #29
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    I don't know about you guys, but when I have kids they aren't getting a mobile phone or a facebook account until they are at least 16.

  17. #30
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    Without trying to sound like an old git the fundamental problem is society in general. There was an instance a couple of years ago where someone committed suicide by jumping off a balcony in the Bullring (Birmingham). That on its own was sad enough but the number of people I then saw taking out there phones just to take pictures and videos was the part that truly disgusted me. Society has lost all of it morals, someone had died and all these people wanted to do was take pictures and show all of their friends.

    Many of these pictures ended up on Facebook and there were calls for them to be removed. I do not believe this was Facebooks job; it is down to those people who didn't have the common decency to not take a picture in the first place.

  18. 2 Thanks to foofighterjim:

    Rawns (23rd October 2013), tmcd35 (23rd October 2013)

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