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General Chat Thread, Learner drives waiting longer to drive in General; I heard on the radio that plans for learner drivers to wait a year before taking their test and not ...
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    timbo343's Avatar
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    Learner drives waiting longer to drive

    I heard on the radio that plans for learner drivers to wait a year before taking their test and not allowed to drive in the dark until they have been driving a while unless someone over 30 is sat with them.

    My thoughts on this is... its a money making scam and surely what happens when it gets dark at 4pm in winter?

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    broc's Avatar
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    the proposal for a curfew was between 22:00pm and 5:00am

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    BBC Article.

    I think it is some proposal by the Transport Research Laboratory. Young drivers account for 5% of the mileage but are involved in >20% of accidents involving fatalities. That suggests *something* is wrong. I doubt the government will act on the recommendations.
    Last edited by pcstru; 11th October 2013 at 10:48 AM.

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    The car industry / motor lobby will get the Tories to kill this for sure. Even though it's quite reasonable.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    The bit I want to know is the '120 hours supervised driving' bit they suggested. Supervised by who? By parents/other qualified drivers? If so, how is this enforced? Or is it 120 hours with a driving instructor? If so, that's an extra £2400 roughly!

    I work full time and I wouldn't be able to afford that!

    No, the ideas here are ridiculous. Better teaching. Better dealing with the idiot driving etc... Crack down on the wheel spinning, the engine revving, car-modding crowd.

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    I can see couple of faults with the curfew. What happens if you get caught up in traffic or are running late?!
    Surely if young drivers are not allowed to practice night driving, how are they going to be any good when they are allowed? Surely it's better to practice night and day driving from the start so that the different techniques and things to watch out for are implanted.

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    Chris_in_notts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    No, the ideas here are ridiculous. Better teaching. Better dealing with the idiot driving etc... Crack down on the wheel spinning, the engine revving, car-modding crowd.
    I agree the ideas are ridiculous but it seems unfair to assume all the engine revving car modders are to blame lol

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    bondbill2k2's Avatar
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    Make a speed awareness cause similar to those provided as the get out option for speeding as part of the test or once passed to try and improve/promote safe driving?

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    Fleetwood's Avatar
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    What about people under X age to be insured on only small-engined cars? (Regardless if they live out of Mummy & Daddy's bank account.) - I appreciate you can 'modify' vehicles but there's only so much you'll get out of a small engine. And sure, you could also say "that's fine, but they can easily get an engine swap" - then make it illegal [if they're in the age-restriction, plus they would have to declare the modification to the insurer anyway else it'd be void] or at least have some enforcement put into doing that. You won't prevent -every- young driver no matter what you put in place, but I'm sure the deterents (small-engine vehicles only) will cut the numbers.

    I'm only 20 myself though, so I'm sure I "don't know what I'm talking about." haha

    I find part of the issue is that Joe Bloggs has spent up to a year, or more, learning in a 1.0 Hyundai Getz, then is rewarded for passing with a 1.6 Citroen Saxo VRS or something of similar nature. On the other hand though, speaking partly on behalf of myself and other young drivers, it's not always us that cause the accidents.
    Last edited by Fleetwood; 11th October 2013 at 12:04 PM.

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    gtg93 (11th October 2013)

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    The bit I want to know is the '120 hours supervised driving' bit they suggested. Supervised by who? By parents/other qualified drivers? If so, how is this enforced? Or is it 120 hours with a driving instructor? If so, that's an extra £2400 roughly!

    I work full time and I wouldn't be able to afford that!
    I would have thought as a new young driver, that would be the cost of a car + insurance.

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    Fleetwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    I would have thought as a new young driver, that would be the cost of a car + insurance.
    Depends on a lot of circumstances I guess, but in 2011 my first ever insurance premium was £1738 for a 1996 1.3 Nissan Micra - I doubt it's any cheaper for 17 year olds now.

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    Sunnyknight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBlax View Post
    What about people under X age to be insured on only small-engined cars? (Regardless if they live out of Mummy & Daddy's bank account.) - I appreciate you can 'modify' vehicles but there's only so much you'll get out of a small engine.
    You can get 700bhp out of a 1.3 mazda rx7 / 8 rotary engine.

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    Chris_in_notts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBlax View Post
    What about people under X age to be insured on only small-engined cars? (Regardless if they live out of Mummy & Daddy's bank account.) - I appreciate you can 'modify' vehicles but there's only so much you'll get out of a small engine. And sure, you could also say "that's fine, but they can easily get an engine swap" - then make it illegal [if they're in the age-restriction, plus they would have to declare the modification to the insurer anyway else it'd be void] or at least have some enforcement put into doing that. You won't prevent -every- young driver no matter what you put in place, but I'm sure the deterents (small-engine vehicles only) will cut the numbers.

    I'm only 20 myself though, so I'm sure I "don't know what I'm talking about." haha



    I find part of the issue is that Joe Bloggs has spent up to a year, or more, learning in a 1.0 Hyundai Getz, then is rewarded for passing with a 1.6 Citroen Saxo VRS or something of similar nature. On the other hand though, speaking partly on behalf of myself and other young drivers, it's not always us that cause the accidents.
    people will crash though no matter what they drive my first car was a Fiat punto 1.4 GT turbo running 205hp at the wheels they I sold that and bought a chevy monte carlo 5 litre V8 when I was 19 never crashed either of them ive been driving modded cars ever since and killed no one yet.

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    As a current learner but somebody outside the 17-24 age bracket, it looks like I would be quite affected by some of these changes, though others can potentially work.

    I agree that 100 daytime hours, and 20 nighttime hours would be horribly expensive, if they all had to be undertaken with an instructor. At the rates I'm paying at the moment, that would run up £2760. That said, the phrase used is under supervision. Realistically that should include the already existing provision for any qualified driver over 21, and having held a licence for at least three years, to be able to supervise. That would be affected by the potential passenger over 30 rule, during curfew hours.

    As for the curfew hours, the suggestions there, is they will apply to ALL newly qualified drivers, regardless of age. Great, that throws out the trekking across various parts of rural england, to/from voluntary duties outside of normal working hours, which would previously, have not been a problem. Being able to drive at night is certainly a skill to be taught, but the restrictions here are those they want to impose on drivers who have already been given instruction, and have passed a practical driving test. These additional restrictions aimed at everybody under 30 is entirely unreasonable. At 25 I may have very different reasons and motivation for driving at nighttime hours than an 18 year old, and the same would be true of a 29 year old who would be similarly affected. Granted, there aren't many people learning to drive at that age, but where I live, driving is almost essential. Public transport is non-existant in the majority of the county after 2200.

    The last major point I think is unworkable is a ban on people under 30 transporting other people under 30 during the 12 month probation. With my voluntary position, I would be in a position where I am unable to get people to events/courses etc. For an event that I need to transport four people to, all of whom would be under-30, I would need to draft in another volunteer, another vehicle, another journies worthwith associated fuel comsumption, when previously a single vehicle could have done the job.
    As transport for 'work' related purposes, I would already need insurance cover for business use to carry those passengers.

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    I will be severely impacted by these new rules, I am 19 and have just bought a 1997 Ford Fiesta as a first car to learn in, I bought this car to I can get passed as early as possible and I need it for work, and for transporting other people to/from work also who are under the age of 30! This is ridiculous and it makes younger drivers feel like the have already done something wrong before they have even passed their test!



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