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General Chat Thread, Learner drives waiting longer to drive in General; I agree that such ideas are not enforceable. We can't just assume all new drivers are 18. You can be ...
  1. #16

    Michael's Avatar
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    I agree that such ideas are not enforceable. We can't just assume all new drivers are 18. You can be any age and pass your driving test.

    The logical way forward is within the 12 months of learning that drivers are taught how to drive on the motorway, at night and to understand the dangers of drinking and driving and/or drugging and driving. This makes a lot more sense and would prepare new drivers for the many journeys ahead, instead of wasting Police time on identifying which drivers should or shouldn't be driving past a certain time!

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    I'm 23 and drive a 1998 Toyota Corolla, pay about 1300 a year to insure.
    I owned a 1995 Honda CBR600F last year (Motorbike) and paid about 290 for the year!

    Madness

    I don't think you should do a 1 day driving test, I think it should be an assessment over a period of time. Everyone has good days, everyone has bad days.

  3. #18

    unixman_again's Avatar
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    The boss of the AA raised some interesting points this morning. Somebody who passes their test at 28 can't drive without a passenger over 30. This very badly affects single parents, people who work in country pubs and restaurants, night shift workers, etc. In countries where there is a curfew, such as New Zealand, drivers can pass their test at 16. There is no substitute for driving experience, and by the time these drivers reach 18 (legal adulthood) they can have two years driving experience.

    In my own case, I grew up in Australia and I passed my driving licence at 16 but I did not drive a car, preferring to use a motorbike. When I came to Blighty at 36, I sat my UK car licence and although I had road sense, there was no way I was a good driver until a couple of years behind the wheel.

    I think more should be made of the learning experience. At the mo, anyone can teach somebody else to drive and then the learner can go and pass their test and be let loose on the road. In South Australia, the scheme is a professional driving instructor fills in a logbook on behalf of the learner. Each essential driving skill, such as parking, reversing around a corner, where ticked off when they were done. If regular lessons where taken over the course of a year and the logbook was accurately kept, the driver could get a licence without doing a formal driving test. If you were taught by your parents, then you still keep the logbook but you have to take the formal driving test. For the first 12 months, SA drivers under 25 have P plates and there are restricts as to what they can drive. This is a much more practical system.

  4. #19


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    Quote Originally Posted by TBlax View Post
    Depends on a lot of circumstances I guess, but in 2011 my first ever insurance premium was 1738 for a 1996 1.3 Nissan Micra - I doubt it's any cheaper for 17 year olds now.
    I doubt it is. My stepdaughters boyfriend is ~24ish, just passed his test and was being quoted that kind of figure for a small car. So if the proposals were successful in their aim of reducing the accident statistics, one might presume the cost of insurance should reduce in line with the reduction in risk. So the cost of passing a test goes up (a reflection of higher standards/better training) while the cost of motoring goes down. Seems reasonable to me (in principle).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrmichaelhill View Post
    I'm 23 and drive a 1998 Toyota Corolla, pay about 1300 a year to insure.
    I owned a 1995 Honda CBR600F last year (Motorbike) and paid about 290 for the year!

    Madness
    Not madness at all. It's all about risk (probability AND consequences). You might be somewhat more likely to get yourself killed on the CBR (very nice bike) but you are far more likely to do serious damage to more people in a car and so trigger higher payouts against your insurer.

  6. #21

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    I would have thought as a new young driver, that would be the cost of a car + insurance.
    Maybe so. But that's an extra cost.

  7. #22
    DrPerceptron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrmichaelhill View Post
    I'm 23 and drive a 1998 Toyota Corolla, pay about 1300 a year to insure.
    I owned a 1995 Honda CBR600F last year (Motorbike) and paid about 290 for the year!

    Madness

    I don't think you should do a 1 day driving test, I think it should be an assessment over a period of time. Everyone has good days, everyone has bad days.
    That is madness... I'm 25 and have never paid more than 700 since I was 19... and my current and previous cars were not sensible, practical cars.




    That said, I don't have a problem with people having a minimum number of lessons with an actual current and qualified instructor (some I've learnt actually aren't!), to be 18. Maybe we should be looking to move to a more inclusive set of driving lessons and tests that resemble the requirements of a license in Finland - 18 hours of instructed driving, a session on a slippery course and there's a city driving aspect to it as well. The fact you can pass your test without driving in the rain, at night or on a motorway is a bit of a joke as well.

    On the subject of little cars, I once had a 2012 Ibiza Eco as a courtesy car... it had a little 1.2l TDI pushing out an eye-watering 60-70bhp and I did not feel safe in it at all. Braking on its low-resistance tyres was about the length of a football pitch at 30mph and it's acceleration could be best measured with a calendar.

  8. #23


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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Maybe so. But that's an extra cost.
    The hope is that the result of higher standards would lead to a reduction in insurance costs as risk reduces. So what you lose upfront, you will gain in the first few years of lower premiums.

    Personally I think that the proposals are reasonable BUT, I would be reasonably happy to see higher standards encouraged by the market. So you choose whether you achieve an A level licence and get lower premiums or you just go for the CGSE and then pay through the nose for insurance because you represent a higher risk. What I think is unacceptable is that we do nothing to stem the carnage of young, inexperienced drivers on the roads.

  9. #24
    Sunnyknight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPerceptron View Post
    That is madness... I'm 25 and have never paid more than 700 since I was 19... and my current and previous cars were not sensible, practical cars.
    My first car was a lovely mk6 for escort 1.8si. I paid 0 for it, but 3000 a year for insurance.

    At the moment, i pay 700 for a 1.6 sport ford focus and i'm 23

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    The bit I want to know is the '120 hours supervised driving' bit they suggested. Supervised by who? By parents/other qualified drivers? If so, how is this enforced? Or is it 120 hours with a driving instructor? If so, that's an extra 2400 roughly!

    I work full time and I wouldn't be able to afford that!

    No, the ideas here are ridiculous. Better teaching. Better dealing with the idiot driving etc... Crack down on the wheel spinning, the engine revving, car-modding crowd.
    When my sister lived in france with my mum and stepdad, my mum had to take a 'test' with my sisters instructor to see that she was a good enough driver to be able to supervise my sister.

  11. #26
    CAM
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    The hope is that the result of higher standards would lead to a reduction in insurance costs as risk reduces. So what you lose upfront, you will gain in the first few years of lower premiums.

    Personally I think that the proposals are reasonable BUT, I would be reasonably happy to see higher standards encouraged by the market. So you choose whether you achieve an A level licence and get lower premiums or you just go for the CGSE and then pay through the nose for insurance because you represent a higher risk. What I think is unacceptable is that we do nothing to stem the carnage of young, inexperienced drivers on the roads.
    Pipe dream. If the price of insurance "drops" they will find ways to raise it again. Currently they are introducing black boxes to wriggle out of more claims by spying on driving habits. Also insurance used to go down once you passed, now it goes up by a significant margin as they claim you are on your own and thus more of a risk then someone who hasn't even qualified. A decade ago my insurance was around 1500 for a Fiesta, dropping a lot after qualifying and currently around the 300 mark for my Astra with maximum no claims.

  12. #27
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    They should let people drive when they are younger, but restricted cars. In Sweden 15 year olds are allowed to drive a 2 seater car that is restricted to 30mph, this gives them the experience at reduced risk so when they are allowed more power and bigger cars when older they dont go mad with them.

  13. Thanks to Danp from:

    mac_shinobi (11th October 2013)

  14. #28
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    This is a ridiculous idea in my opinion - yes something needs to be done about the kn*bs who have a car bought for them by their parents, and then spend their time putting tinny exhausts on and driving around like numpties until they smash the car to pieces - but this is penalising the many because of the few.

    I'm 20years old have been driving 3years in March... Touch wood not a bump or scrape so far! I do however, believe the passplus should be mandatory, and part of the learning process should be offroad learning how to manouvere in different conditions (heavy rain, snow, ice etc).

    IMO, the best option (although unlikey to ever happen), would be to incorparate it into the curriculum and learn offroad from the age of say 12, but not be legally allowed on the roads until you're 17. I think it's Norway (might be elsewhere) that currently do this and they have one of the lowest road accident / casualty rates in the world.

    edit: People mentioning their insurance - My first years insurance @ 18 was just over 4000 (cheapest I could find) and that was in a '99 Corsa 1.4 (cost me 500) - I'd got quoted for a 1L and that was a whole 200 cheaper over the year. I know drive a '02 focus 1.6 and am paying just over 1000.
    Last edited by gtg93; 11th October 2013 at 01:18 PM.

  15. #29
    DrPerceptron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danp View Post
    They should let people drive when they are younger, but restricted cars. In Sweden 15 year olds are allowed to drive a 2 seater car that is restricted to 30mph, this gives them the experience at reduced risk so when they are allowed more power and bigger cars when older they dont go mad with them.
    SEAT, Mercedes-Benz and several other manufacturers let young drivers out and about in their little cars on closed courses with an instructor usually. They might be unrealistically priced though, I think I saw 30 for 30 minutes in some places.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAM View Post
    Pipe dream. If the price of insurance "drops" they will find ways to raise it again. Currently they are introducing black boxes to wriggle out of more claims by spying on driving habits.
    And your evidence for this scurrilous claim is?

    Also insurance used to go down once you passed, now it goes up by a significant margin as they claim you are on your own and thus more of a risk then someone who hasn't even qualified.
    Sure, and they are right, young people are killing themselves in droves, but not generally while they are accompanied learners under instruction.

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