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General Chat Thread, Naive - Silkroad??? in General; Originally Posted by DrPerceptron I've known about both versions of Silkroad - the popular MMORPG and the unrestricted marketplace - ...
  1. #16

    garethedmondson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPerceptron View Post
    I've known about both versions of Silkroad - the popular MMORPG and the unrestricted marketplace - for a while.

    Is it a problem that you didn't know about it? There are also several replacements to Silkroad ready to come online soon to fill the gap. TOR contains lots of dodgy stuff, part of the reason it exists and part of the reason NSA/GCHQ are investing a lot of time and money into resources and technologies to destabilise and de-anonymise users.
    Hiya - no not a problem that I didn't know about it - but I often read reports like this and as someone who is on the web a lot, reading different forums etc I'm suprised I never read abou it. The media make it out to be a really popular website - even so - not many people I've spoken to this morning in my world have heard of it.

    Gareth

  2. #17

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garethedmondson View Post
    not many people I've spoken to this morning in my world have heard of it.
    I'd take that as a sign you keep good company

    [not that anyone who has heard of it is automatically bad of course (I'd heard of it)]

  3. #18

    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garacesh View Post
    That sounds like a story my morbid curiosity wants to hear, but my critical thinking does not.

    CEOP is the wrong place? Why is that?
    I'd have thought that you'd be able to pass it to them due to it being online, and they would be able to pass it on to the relevant people?
    CEOP [from what I can see] only let you report things about SPECIFIC people. [I.E little jimmy was touched by someone]

    There's no option for "here's a big load of child abuse images".

    Quote Originally Posted by LeMarchand View Post
    Surely the risk is only dependent on what you go looking for? If you just use TOR to (say) obfuscate your visits to carp fishing sites it's no worse than using your normal browser (apart from "they" would have an easier time tracking your leisure pursuits). It's not as if you have to pass through a TOR gateway site offering you all kinds of illegal stuff.
    I was actually looking for a list of .onion websites... this was one of the first.

    Seems like .onion/TOR is one big problem.

  4. #19
    Sdrawkcab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    I was actually looking for a list of .onion websites... this was one of the first.

    Seems like .onion/TOR is one big problem.
    Hidden Wiki? As far as I know, Anonymous actually have a campaign where they constantly edit the Hidden Wiki so that all the links to CP boards redirect to the FBI website. But yeah, there's some pretty awful stuff on TOR. Same as pretty much any other "anonymous" network though, and it doesn't mean we should do away with them altogether.

    My understanding, by the way, is that one does not go looking for .onion websites. If you need to access one, you will know the URL already. That's kind of the point of them.

    I had no doubts it was a real website, and truth be told I did believe there was drug trafficking and the selling of malware/virusses/rootkits etc. Even prostitution.
    Can't say I honestly believed the 'assassinations for bitcoins' rumours, though.
    It was like Ebay/Amazon but for drug trafficking pretty much. I saw a few rootkits/0-days for sale there early on but that was about it. Prostution/human trafficking wasn't allowed on there, nor was the sale of guns or CP. In fact, it was suprisingly strict about the sort of illegal content that was allowed for sale, pretty much limiting it to drugs and fake ID only. I never bought anything from there and I'm glad I didn't, since even people who only bought legal stuff from there have been busted by the FBI in the time since the site went down.

    After hearing about it back in 2011, I ended up doing a lot of research into how it worked because I couldn't believe people were able to so brazenly violate the law. It was really a very clever implementation of TOR/bitcoin, which I guess is why it was able to operate so successfully for so long. The reputation system for vendors was actually really effective at keeping scammers out of the site, and the login system used two-factor authentication to stop people from setting up fake SR websites to steal accounts. I don't think it was quite as big as the media likes to make out, though - there were around 150,000 users total in the end.

    Edit: For some good ol' schadenfreude, the SR forums are still up on the .onion address they were using before the marketplace went down. If you take a look at them, you can see terrified vendors making posts like this:

    How do you meet people to sell the stock you have left over since the site went down? I have over $5000 worth of product left over and I don't have many friends
    Last edited by Sdrawkcab; 10th October 2013 at 12:40 PM.

  5. #20


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    Quote Originally Posted by LeMarchand View Post
    My understanding, by the way, is that one does not go looking for .onion websites. If you need to access one, you will know the URL already. That's kind of the point of them.
    That, too, was my understanding. That being said, I have no doubts that some unscrupulous sites are a lot easier to access than others, and nothing inherently states a .onion domain is bad by default. It stands to reason that, through those, someone, somewhere, will have taken 'Anonymity on TOR' a little too seriously and not bothered to protect their precious CP community.

    Maybe I'm being a tinfoil-hat-wearing, hype-believing git. Maybe. But given that I have no real reason to use TOR in the first place, makes no sense putting myself at risk.

    Edit: As for the pushers with excess stock, maybe they should just split it up and mail it to their most loyal/best paying customers. Their customers are happy for the free gift, and they no longer have stockpiles of mysterious white powder that they need to shift. Everybody wins!
    Last edited by Garacesh; 10th October 2013 at 12:47 PM.

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    Sdrawkcab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garacesh View Post
    Edit: As for the pushers with excess stock, maybe they should just split it up and mail it to their most loyal/best paying customers. Their customers are happy for the free gift, and they no longer have stockpiles of mysterious white powder that they need to shift. Everybody wins!
    Unfortuantely they can't do this, as they shouldn't have any of their customer addresses anywhere. SR let vendors view the address of the buyer once, after which time it was deleted from their servers forever. The idea was that the vendor would only click "show me the address" when they had everything packaged up, write the address on the package, and then close the window so that no record was kept. Obviously there's no guarantee that they did this, of course, but as your success as a vendor on SR largely depended on your reputation rating, it would be in their interest to follow the rules as closely as possible.

  7. #22


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    Then it's the ol' 'dump it down the loo' trick, I'm afraid.

    Hm, the more I discover about the inner workings of Silk Road, the more I understand why it became so successful. That's actually a good idea.

  8. #23

    tech_guy's Avatar
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    The dark web is something I've had a shufty at. Not very nice people out there. I've written about this stuff in the past on various blogs.

  9. #24

    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sdrawkcab View Post
    Hidden Wiki? As far as I know, Anonymous actually have a campaign where they constantly edit the Hidden Wiki so that all the links to CP boards redirect to the FBI website. But yeah, there's some pretty awful stuff on TOR. Same as pretty much any other "anonymous" network though, and it doesn't mean we should do away with them altogether.
    Aye. But, I wasn't going to mention it in case curiosity got the better of someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sdrawkcab View Post
    My understanding, by the way, is that one does not go looking for .onion websites. If you need to access one, you will know the URL already. That's kind of the point of them.
    I heard it was slow, so I wanted to test it with .onion and non-.onion websites.

    It is slow, BTW. Really, really slow. But, only on .onion.

  10. #25
    Sdrawkcab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garacesh View Post
    Hm, the more I discover about the inner workings of Silk Road, the more I understand why it became so successful. That's actually a good idea.
    It was really really well designed. The site admin just made the mistake of asking bitcointalk.com for help with designing a website which sounded suspiciously like SR using an account which was registered to his personal gmail address (literally firstname.lastname@gmail.com). As with all things on the internet like this, the weak link in the security chain was the human at the top.

  11. #26

    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sdrawkcab View Post
    registered to his personal gmail address (literally firstname.lastname@gmail.com).
    Wasn't it HIS DAD's email? [Which makes it sound like a pretty smart, but also stupid, kid.]

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    I read in the paper it was his own. He also apparently ordered a tonne of fake ID's (to provide 'proof of ID' to rent servers) that were intercepted and had his real photograph on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    Aye. But, I wasn't going to mention it in case curiosity got the better of someone.
    Curiosity will not be getting the better of me from what you're saying.

  13. #28
    CAM
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    I doubt IWF will be able to do much as TOR is really hard to block? Just chuck the report at CEOP and they can deal with it. I'd say go to the Police but knowing this country they will probably start throwing accusations around to the CPS. :/ Just never go back there!

  14. #29

    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garacesh View Post
    Curiosity will not be getting the better of me from what you're saying.
    Good.

    I've had a word with our CP lead and had to fill in a safeguarding form about it. I've also told someone at borough level about it, so they can warn off staff who may be inclined to play about with TOR.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAM View Post
    Just chuck the report at CEOP and they can deal with it. I'd say go to the Police but knowing this country they will probably start throwing accusations around to the CPS. :/ Just never go back there!
    CEOP is the police.

    And all their forms ask for the name of the child who is being abused. I don't know this. And it isn't just 1.

    As for the throwing accusations. This is what I've been worried about. [Doesn't help that someone in this thread did it...]

    And there's no [censored] way I'm going back there!

  15. #30
    CAM
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    I've seen it mentioned before by the Police that they look for signs of someone habitually visiting a site. If a particular address is visited multiple times over a space of time, they can presume that it is someone who is seeking such material and will probably find more evidence on their hard drive to cement a prosecution. An IP address that visits once and never seen again would likely be ignored by the Police, especially if it is a site you wouldn't expect to find it on. But this applies to standard HTTP traffic, not sure how it'd apply to TOR.

    But then again, I saw some downright petty stuff on jury duty for other non-tech offences. I also don't have a career in wearing a wig whilst being paid lots of money to argue with people in a wood panelled room.

    Could also label the name field "Everyone"
    Last edited by CAM; 10th October 2013 at 01:27 PM.

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