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General Chat Thread, Energy Companies in General; Originally Posted by pcstru Well, at least they run the heating at work :-)! LOL Unless you work in our ...
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    AMLightfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    Well, at least they run the heating at work :-)!
    LOL Unless you work in our Support team who prefer the temperature of the office so cold it makes Siberia look like the Sahara...

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMLightfoot View Post
    IMO, I don't think it is WRONG per se to raise the cost of prospecting for non-sustainable energy sources, as long as this is offset by a DECREASE in costs for 'Green' energy - hydroelectric power, solar, wind, tidal, etc. I am genuinely concerned about what will happen when the non-renewable energy sources run out.
    You can't decrease the costs of renewables without raising the subsidy. I think it is wrong to take money out of people's pockets and shove it to the corporates.

    The problem with the cost of everything going up is that wages aren't supporting it - back in the 40s and 50s (and earlier) many families could live comfortably on one income. 50+ years later and we're struggling on 2 full time incomes - in the next 20 years how many working adults will a household need just to get by?
    There are several reasons for that, not the least of which is the endless ramping up of debt which taxpayers have to keep paying the interest on, and there's also house price inflation of course which is the largest single bill most people have to pay. There are solutions - none of them pleasant.

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    nicholab's Avatar
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    I did hear that the UK has the poorest insulated homes in Europe know wonder we have such high bills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMLightfoot View Post
    IMO, I don't think it is WRONG per se to raise the cost of prospecting for non-sustainable energy sources, as long as this is offset by a DECREASE in costs for 'Green' energy - hydroelectric power, solar, wind, tidal, etc. I am genuinely concerned about what will happen when the non-renewable energy sources run out.
    I don't think there is any prospect of fossil fuels running out in the next 50-100 years. Shale gas looks highly likely to be an accessible source for a long time to come, there are huge reserves locked up in tar sands and there are possibilities of exploiting methane hydrates locked up below the waves. There is probably a huge reserve of oil yet to tap into under the relatively unexplored Artic seas. The question is, do we want our descendants to have to deal with the consequences of burning more and more fossil fuel, driving atmospheric Co2 levels ever higher and global average temperatures with it? Essentially we are pushing the cost of our energy use onto generations which have yet to be born - is that ethical? Does our "right to be warm" trump their right to live in a temperate world?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nicholab View Post
    I did hear that the UK has the poorest insulated homes in Europe know wonder we have such high bills.
    True and while Germany has higher energy costs, it hit's consumers less hard because they are much more efficient in their energy use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    True and while Germany has higher energy costs, it hit's consumers less hard because they are much more efficient in their energy use.
    However, German companies are finding that they can't compete due to high energy costs. So consumers are losing out because not only do they, as employees, find their wages squeezed because their employers are spending so much on power, but they are also losing out because goods are more expensive, because companies have to raise their prices - because they're spending so much on power.

    Insulation isn't the problem here. Ecomentalists deciding what the price of electricity should be is the problem here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatpackhamster View Post
    However, German companies are finding that they can't compete due to high energy costs.
    Can't they? I guess that means Germany isn't the economic powerhouse of Europe. Can't say I'd noticed that.
    Insulation isn't the problem here. Ecomentalists deciding what the price of electricity should be is the problem here.
    That seems a very strange thing to say given we are demonstrably using more energy than our European neighbours. If we use energy more efficiently, then we will use less of it. That is a good thing whatever the price.

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    I've been with an enery company called Ebico for almost 7 years during which time they have put up their prices maybe four times. Unlike the rest of the energy companies, they are a not-for-profit organisation with the aim of providing a fair and simple tariff for everyone. Currently, gas costs 5.57p per kWh (inc VAT), regardless of how much you use or how you pay. This means no discounts for Direct Debits, but no penalties for pre-payment meters. There are also no tiers after you have used a certain amount of energy and no standing charge. You simply pay for what you use. Electricity is a little different, in that it varies slightly according to region, but other than that, the single cost per kWh applies.

    When I bought my house last year, gas was supplied by npower on a pre-payment meter that had a 37p a day standing charge (before VAT)! That's over £11 a month (over £132 a year) before any gas is supplied. With Ebico, I have spent less than £2 on gas since May. While I appreciate that this would not work out the same for everyone, depending on how you use energy in your household, it shows that it really isn't necessary to increase energy prices every few months if you don't have big bonuses and shareholder dividends to pay!

  9. 6 Thanks to StevieM:

    AMLightfoot (10th October 2013), ButterflyMoon (11th October 2013), Dos_Box (10th October 2013), DT2 (10th October 2013), jinnantonnixx (10th October 2013), Miscbrah (10th October 2013)

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    AMLightfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevieM View Post
    I've been with an enery company called Ebico for almost 7 years during which time they have put up their prices maybe four times. Unlike the rest of the energy companies, they are a not-for-profit organisation with the aim of providing a fair and simple tariff for everyone. Currently, gas costs 5.57p per kWh (inc VAT), regardless of how much you use or how you pay. This means no discounts for Direct Debits, but no penalties for pre-payment meters. There are also no tiers after you have used a certain amount of energy and no standing charge. You simply pay for what you use. Electricity is a little different, in that it varies slightly according to region, but other than that, the single cost per kWh applies.

    When I bought my house last year, gas was supplied by npower on a pre-payment meter that had a 37p a day standing charge (before VAT)! That's over £11 a month (over £132 a year) before any gas is supplied. With Ebico, I have spent less than £2 on gas since May. While I appreciate that this would not work out the same for everyone, depending on how you use energy in your household, it shows that it really isn't necessary to increase energy prices every few months if you don't have big bonuses and shareholder dividends to pay!
    Somewhat ironically, just checked Ebico against my Southern Electric Gas and elec bills and they come out considerably more expensive than Ebico in both Gas and per unit elec prices for me... Interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    I don't think there is any prospect of fossil fuels running out in the next 50-100 years.
    I remember reading that Britain is sitting on top of 800 years of coal. All we need is a couple of nice big coal fired power stations and we, as a nation, can have all the electrickery we want to use, and at a nice cheap price. There would be many thousands of mining jobs created too.

    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    Essentially we are pushing the cost of our energy use onto generations which have yet to be born - is that ethical?
    Probably not, but on the other hand I personally couldn't care less as I'll be pushing up the daisies by the time climate change or pollution becomes a real problem.

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    I'm all in favour of shale gas. What it will buy us is time to develop and build and develop the next generation of power stations and power generation technologies. And it would make us energy independent meaning that bills would either go down or stabalise as we wouldn't be buying gas from an overseas market.
    Anything but wind power, which is hugely subsedised by us, the tax payer. From your fuel bills.

  13. Thanks to Dos_Box from:

    Martin (10th October 2013)

  14. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by DT2 View Post
    It *should* be, yes. But just think of all those folks who keep warm on your tax money having never graced a place of work in their lives. Whilst you sit and freeze, and bust a gut on a daily basis trying to make ends meet.... The first house I bought was gloriously warm, but only because the guy next door never worked a day in his life and always had the heat up full. I didn't need my heating because effectively my taxes were paying his bill anyway... God forbid these people be forced to work and not have enough money to go round, that's some kind of travesty you know
    Well, there was always going to be someone come up with this argument.... I'm just surprised it took so long!

    Back to the op...

    I find it hard to believe that the government (you can add successive before that word if you like) allow prices to rise by that much more than inflation ... but they do. It's no different to train prices etc etc.

    But lucky for them, they have their big houses and bills paid for by you and me.... though that's ok cos they're politicians and are doing good, instead of unemployed trash who are good for nothing.

    Pretty sure none of them will have to watch the pennies to pay their heating. .... but you carry on at the unemployed... it must make you feel so holier-than-thou!

  15. Thanks to aerospacemango from:

    ButterflyMoon (11th October 2013)

  16. #28
    DT2
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    Quote Originally Posted by aerospacemango View Post
    Well, there was always going to be someone come up with this argument.... I'm just surprised it took so long!

    Back to the op...

    I find it hard to believe that the government (you can add successive before that word if you like) allow prices to rise by that much more than inflation ... but they do. It's no different to train prices etc etc.

    But lucky for them, they have their big houses and bills paid for by you and me.... though that's ok cos they're politicians and are doing good, instead of unemployed trash who are good for nothing.

    Pretty sure none of them will have to watch the pennies to pay their heating. .... but you carry on at the unemployed... it must make you feel so holier-than-thou!
    Nay, not the unemployed in general. The bone idle, the one's who are "unemployed by choice". Where I used to live there was plenty of them.... That was my aiming point. Politicians are on the same level, bills and expenses paid for by you and me. As for the genuinely unemployed (those that have been made redundant etc, and would ike to work) I really would't gripe at them using the system to their benefit and cover what they need. I do however take issue with those who abuse that system and take away from those who genuinely need it.
    Hope that's straightened my point out a bit.

  17. Thanks to DT2 from:

    ButterflyMoon (11th October 2013)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos_Box View Post
    I'm all in favour of shale gas.
    "Having burned in a century, what life and geology took hundreds of millions of years to create and store, to the extent where we changed the atmosphere our planet enough to begin to drive up the energy balance with our local star, the worst we could find to say about fossil fuels was we were dependent on the Arabs and Russians for the supply. Then came shale. We drilled wells, and in order to pour more poison into the very air we breath we started pumping poison and explosion into the ground - fracking. What could possibly go wrong?"

    The best thing about shale gas is it a slightly better option than tar sands and is likely to make exploiting those uneconomic for the foreseeable future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unixman_again View Post
    I remember reading that Britain is sitting on top of 800 years of coal. All we need is a couple of nice big coal fired power stations and we, as a nation, can have all the electrickery we want to use, and at a nice cheap price. There would be many thousands of mining jobs created too.
    ...and even if, and it is a very big "IF", the tree-huggers/eco-warriors/IPCC are right that CO2 makes the planet hotter - it is a double bonus, 'cos the global temperature will rise so we won't need to spend so much on heating

    mb



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