+ Post New Thread
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 46 to 57 of 57
General Chat Thread, Guardian, Snowden etc in General; ...
  1. #46

    SYNACK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    11,205
    Thank Post
    876
    Thanked 2,729 Times in 2,308 Posts
    Blog Entries
    11
    Rep Power
    782
    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    especially as you didn't even seem to realise Northern Ireland was part of your nation, but tried to school me on my geography anyway.
    Umm, he said Éire, the Native name for Ireland, if referring to the original landmass then sure the UK had some nasty skirmishes and took the top chunk of it. If referring to the nation of Ireland then the perception of that has changed over time from being separate back to a unified view but there are all sorts of subtleties that are still being worked through.

    At best your only part right similar to saying that Australia is part of the UK because it is still in the Commonwealth. All of your arguments seem to be based on the premise that you know better without providing any supporting evidence. I think the local term is 'put up or #$%& up' so unless you can drop some Snowden level leaks to back up your position you have no leg to stand on and are simply arguing your interpretation rather than from any factual standpoint.

    The truth of the matters is largely unknown which is the point, all we can do is hope that they make better decisions behind closed doors than they make out in the open.
    Last edited by SYNACK; 25th August 2013 at 12:26 PM.

  2. #47


    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    3,201
    Thank Post
    283
    Thanked 861 Times in 644 Posts
    Rep Power
    336
    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    I will leave you with your naive and incorrect view as I have better things to do than argue with you, especially as you didn't even seem to realise Northern Ireland was part of your nation, but tried to school me on my geography anyway.
    I usually take the view that when discussion becomes what people did and did not say, it's over. Still I feel compelled to point out that I did not, as you seem to claim, say NI was not part of the UK. I said Éire - the Irish word for the State of Ireland. That's the large independent bit in the south of the island. I said it to try and make you think into the wider context of your "civil war". The political wing of the IRA was based in Dublin and the IRA were campaigning for a united Ireland. Éire (the state) imprisoned various members of the IRA for terrorist offences; the state did not support the IRA. And the IRA acknowledged this by saying that their campaign required a change of governance in the south as well as the north. But it was restaurants in Mayfair they bombed, not O'Connell street.

    Still, one woman's terrorists is another woman's freedom fighter. You can call them rebels and the campaign a civil war as you will. When the Islamic Fundamentalists flew airliners full of people into buildings full of people, there were many in the world who celebrated it as a blow to the hegemony of the west. Many Muslims were of course disgusted - even in the likes of Palestine where US vetos have ensured the repression by Israel of the people in the West Bank and Gaza strip. I think the interesting question would be how that has changed as a result of US foreign policy since 9/11. Would more or less people find justification in such an act? Is US policy pacifying the world or creating more willing martyrs? I think there is good evidence for the latter.

    On an naive and incorrect view - obviously I don't claim to have worked as a secret squirrel and have been occupying a lofty enough position in which I would have been privy to secrets which "would cause wars if they were known by the General population living in their fantasy land". Unfortunately I only get to judge based on evidence I can see - the extra judicial murder of people using unmanned drones, the rendition and torture of people suspected of involvement with 'terrorist' activity. The deliberate killing of journalists by the US army using Apache helicopters firing at medical crews who came to help. I can only imagine what you, secret squirrel, must have been privy to if those acts don't make people want to go to war. I have to say I find the whole appeal to 'argument by authority' rather amusing. You claim to be an authority but of course you can't tell us anything because it's secret, so we just have to take your word for it. How very ... convenient. And yet it seems odd that someone who was privy to such information would simply post it on some internet forum. Isn't it a bit of a risk for you? Won't you now go onto the Jihadsists target lists?

    Back to the topic; again we do not (and may never) have the full facts of why David Miranda was detained under legislation aimed at combating terrorism. He was obviously not a terrorists and the information Snowden leaked is quite obviously available elsewhere. What I ask myself is does that action make me feel safer from terrorists or do I feel I'm more at risk from the state abusing their new found powers? Sadly, as with so much of the legislation and state actions since 9/11, it's the latter.

  3. #48

    seawolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    969
    Thank Post
    12
    Thanked 285 Times in 217 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    .When the Islamic Fundamentalists flew airliners full of people into buildings full of people, there were many in the world who celebrated it as a blow to the hegemony of the west. Many Muslims were of course disgusted - even in the likes of Palestine where US vetos have ensured the repression by Israel of the people in the West Bank and Gaza strip.
    The more you say, the more I can see that you have a general hatred for the US and appear quite fine with anything that harms the US.

    And yet it seems odd that someone who was privy to such information would simply post it on some internet forum. Isn't it a bit of a risk for you? Won't you now go onto the Jihadsists target lists?
    I likely have more to fear from people with angry, misinformed and prejudiced views like you than from any "jihadist". As to why I would comment on such subjects on a forum, I become frustrated seeing people make misinformed comments that are akin to someone finding a single page of Shakespeare's MacBeth and believing they then know the whole story. You see a couple of bad cops and then assume the whole police force is bad, corrupt, and operates in such a fashion. So, never mind, I've wasted my time as you will only believe what you think you've seen and wouldn't be likely to believe even DIRNSA himself if he told you to your face.

    Back to the topic; again we do not (and may never) have the full facts of why David Miranda was detained under legislation aimed at combating terrorism. He was obviously not a terrorists and the information Snowden leaked is quite obviously available elsewhere. What I ask myself is does that action make me feel safer from terrorists or do I feel I'm more at risk from the state abusing their new found powers? Sadly, as with so much of the legislation and state actions since 9/11, it's the latter.
    Yet...not nearly as unsafe as you would feel living in Pakistan. But, hey you just might get to experience it one day, especially if there are more like you showing so little support (more like extreme animosity) towards those dedicated to protecting you - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16522447

  4. #49

    SYNACK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    11,205
    Thank Post
    876
    Thanked 2,729 Times in 2,308 Posts
    Blog Entries
    11
    Rep Power
    782
    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    I likely have more to fear from people with angry, misinformed and prejudiced views like you than from any "jihadist". As to why I would comment on such subjects on a forum, I become frustrated seeing people make misinformed comments that are akin to someone finding a single page of Shakespeare's MacBeth and believing they then know the whole story. You see a couple of bad cops and then assume the whole police force is bad, corrupt, and operates in such a fashion. So, never mind, I've wasted my time as you will only believe what you think you've seen and wouldn't be likely to believe even DIRNSA himself if he told you to your face.
    Still nothing to back up your statements, just a unwavering view that you know better with nothing to back it up. I assume you mean the director of the NSA, do they actually that shortened form somewhere with an extreme ink shortage DIRLOLz

  5. #50

    seawolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    969
    Thank Post
    12
    Thanked 285 Times in 217 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    Still nothing to back up your statements, just a unwavering view that you know better with nothing to back it up. I assume you mean the director of the NSA, do they actually that shortened form somewhere with an extreme ink shortage DIRLOLz
    SYNACK - No one says "Director of the NSA" unless its a formal introduction. In any case, unlike Snowden or Manning I didn't steal what I had sworn to protect and don't intend to reveal still classified information. If I outlive my 75 year NDA I'll be happy to spill all. Some of us in this world still want to live honourably and keep our word.

    Using your logic (and that of your cohort) if your grandfather gave you some sage advice to do or not do something based on hard earned experience, you should just ignore it because you can't trust without solid evidence (and experience isn't empirical evidence after all) - so, the only way to get that evidence would be actually doing the opposite and finding out for yourself. So, go ahead jump off the bridge and see if you get hurt since you won't listen to "unsubstantiated" advice. It's why the world's going for broke in the crapshoot of life anyway...

  6. #51

    SYNACK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    11,205
    Thank Post
    876
    Thanked 2,729 Times in 2,308 Posts
    Blog Entries
    11
    Rep Power
    782
    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    SYNACK - No one says "Director of the NSA" unless its a formal introduction. In any case, unlike Snowden or Manning I didn't steal what I had sworn to protect and don't intend to reveal still classified information. If I outlive my 75 year NDA I'll be happy to spill all. Some of us in this world still want to live honourably and keep our word.

    Using your logic (and that of your cohort) if your grandfather gave you some sage advice to do or not do something based on hard earned experience, you should just ignore it because you can't trust without solid evidence (and experience isn't empirical evidence after all) - so, the only way to get that evidence would be actually doing the opposite and finding out for yourself. So, go ahead jump off the bridge and see if you get hurt since you won't listen to "unsubstantiated" advice. It's why the world's going for broke in the crapshoot of life anyway...
    Yea but my grandfather has something you don't credibility to me, some random Australian banging on about the great and well meaning USA has absolutely no weight, what does have weight is their visible and leaked actions, strong arming governments to rewrite local laws in order to enforce their lobbiests paid for laws in the states. Your views may be coloured to think that they spread only goodness and light but that is not what the available evidence suggests. If they want greater support perhaps they could stop acting like such tools. As to your argument, you are doing it from a point of weakness with no supporting evidence, you may as well be questioning my belief in the grand high teapot orbiting the planet, it has that level of weight, you are free to believe as you will but convincing people with 'because I say so' does not work without the threat of repercussions which brings us nicely back around to the subject at hand.

  7. #52

    seawolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    969
    Thank Post
    12
    Thanked 285 Times in 217 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    Yea but my grandfather has something you don't credibility to me, some random Australian banging on about the great and well meaning USA has absolutely no weight, what does have weight is their visible and leaked actions, strong arming governments to rewrite local laws in order to enforce their lobbiests paid for laws in the states. Your views may be coloured to think that they spread only goodness and light but that is not what the available evidence suggests. If they want greater support perhaps they could stop acting like such tools. As to your argument, you are doing it from a point of weakness with no supporting evidence, you may as well be questioning my belief in the grand high teapot orbiting the planet, it has that level of weight, you are free to believe as you will but convincing people with 'because I say so' does not work without the threat of repercussions which brings us nicely back around to the subject at hand.
    Yes,of course. The USA is obviously satan himself and the NSA and GCHQ are his armour bearers. So, I'll leave you to it. Carry on as you were.

  8. #53

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,941
    Thank Post
    519
    Thanked 2,500 Times in 1,941 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    840
    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    Yes,of course. The USA is obviously satan himself and the NSA and GCHQ are his armour bearers. So, I'll leave you to it. Carry on as you were.
    Questioning the actions of our government and that of the USA is not the same as supporting the terrorists. It is actually more patriotic to keep your government in line than it is to blindly agree with everything they say and do, which is what you seem to be doing.

    The evidence we've seen is that there are other agendas at play in this mess, not just protecting the citizens of the country.

  9. #54

    SYNACK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    11,205
    Thank Post
    876
    Thanked 2,729 Times in 2,308 Posts
    Blog Entries
    11
    Rep Power
    782
    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    Yes,of course. The USA is obviously satan himself and the NSA and GCHQ are his armour bearers. So, I'll leave you to it. Carry on as you were.
    Way to take an idea and run with it, I did not call them Satan, just self interested which all governments seem to be at the moment, I don't agree with a bunch of stuff done by my government, your's or the UK's, the troubling thing is the democracy is now about choosing the faces of those who will do whatever they want. The people seem to have very little say in what they do anymore, just who's face gets included in the press releases. This is compounded by their view that the people have no right to know what their governments are doing and that they will happily write new laws and ramp up the force very quickly to defend themselves against the supposed democracy they are 'upholding'. I'm sure Iran does more than their fair share of dodgy stuff but then the western press is still allowed and probably even encouraged to call them on it.

  10. #55

    seawolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    969
    Thank Post
    12
    Thanked 285 Times in 217 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Questioning the actions of our government and that of the USA is not the same as supporting the terrorists. It is actually more patriotic to keep your government in line than it is to blindly agree with everything they say and do, which is what you seem to be doing.

    The evidence we've seen is that there are other agendas at play in this mess, not just protecting the citizens of the country.
    Actually, what I was doing is providing a more balanced view. I have stated that there are "dodgy" things done by all countries including my own (enough for there to have been 10 world wars probably), but that the primary purpose of the NSA and GCHQ was (and is) to protect the citizens of its respective countries and allies. Does that occasionally include protecting political interests and/or those of corporations at times - yes. More often though, it's a group of people diligently working to protect and defend. Stating such a heresy though only brings out the scoffers and scorn by the boat load it seems. Even though most of the "evidence" touted so far against what I have said are things actually done by the CIA - an agency I (and quite a few other NSA folks) have little respect for because they are too often arrogant cowboys. But, besides that little oversight, all of the arguments on here are just rock solid and airtight

    So, I won't continue to "get between a mother bear and her cubs" anymore.

  11. #56

    SYNACK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    11,205
    Thank Post
    876
    Thanked 2,729 Times in 2,308 Posts
    Blog Entries
    11
    Rep Power
    782
    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    Actually, what I was doing is providing a more balanced view. I have stated that there are "dodgy" things done by all countries including my own (enough for there to have been 10 world wars probably), but that the primary purpose of the NSA and GCHQ was (and is) to protect the citizens of its respective countries and allies. Does that occasionally include protecting political interests and/or those of corporations at times - yes. More often though, it's a group of people diligently working to protect and defend. Stating such a heresy though only brings out the scoffers and scorn by the boat load it seems. Even though most of the "evidence" touted so far against what I have said are things actually done by the CIA - an agency I (and quite a few other NSA folks) have little respect for because they are too often arrogant cowboys. But, besides that little oversight, all of the arguments on here are just rock solid and airtight

    So, I won't continue to "get between a mother bear and her cubs" anymore.
    Meh, all good everyone is entitled to their opinions, as an untrustworthy sub-human (or citizen) I can only weigh the facts I have access to while I still have that right. I dislike being told that I can't possibly understand and will not be given the opportunity to. Assuming that everyone else is stupid and untrustworthy generally does not lead to the best PR so hopefully that goes some way to explain where this scorn justifiably comes from.

  12. #57


    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    3,201
    Thank Post
    283
    Thanked 861 Times in 644 Posts
    Rep Power
    336
    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    The more you say, the more I can see that you have a general hatred for the US and appear quite fine with anything that harms the US.
    That's surprising because I haven't said so. But you do seem to want to me to have said things that I haven't. What I have commented on is the use by the US of extra judicial killings (murder), torture and imprisonment with no recourse to legal representation. These are just facts. That some people celebrated the attack on the US is just another fact. If I had to express a considered personal opinion, I'd say I find all those things rather ... sad. I would definitely have to take issue with being "quite fine with anything that harms the US". I believe US foreign policy has been hugely harmful to the US and I'm not really 'fine' with it.
    I likely have more to fear from people with angry, misinformed and prejudiced views like you than from any "jihadist". As to why I would comment on such subjects on a forum, I become frustrated seeing people make misinformed comments that are akin to someone finding a single page of Shakespeare's MacBeth and believing they then know the whole story. You see a couple of bad cops and then assume the whole police force is bad, corrupt, and operates in such a fashion. So, never mind, I've wasted my time as you will only believe what you think you've seen and wouldn't be likely to believe even DIRNSA himself if he told you to your face.
    Ah, more appeals to your authority and your despair at us poor ignorant deluded fools. How you must weep for us of the mere general population, living as we do in our fantasy lands.
    Yet...not nearly as unsafe as you would feel living in Pakistan.
    Much of Pakistan is perfectly safe and the people are very hospitable and welcoming. Perhaps you should go.
    But, hey you just might get to experience it one day, especially if there are more like you showing so little support (more like extreme animosity) towards those dedicated to protecting you - BBC News - Growing use of Sharia by UK Muslims
    If people want to sort out their disputes using "Sharia Law", a local Christian counselling service or just a roll of the dice - that is pretty much up to them. Jewish courts have been in use in Britain for centuries and they don't seem to have subverted us so we are all living under the Beth Din. I expect such things are probably in use in the USA too. Perhaps you should campaign to have them shut down or something, before it's too late.
    Last edited by pcstru; 26th August 2013 at 04:02 PM.

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234

Similar Threads

  1. which installation of gaim etc
    By mac_shinobi in forum Mac
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 5th February 2006, 09:47 PM
  2. Ranks and staff etc ?
    By mac_shinobi in forum How do you do....it?
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 19th January 2006, 08:33 AM
  3. peer guardian or protowall
    By russdev in forum Windows
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 20th November 2005, 12:28 AM
  4. VNC, Remote Desktop, etc thread
    By Inox in forum Windows
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 2nd August 2005, 09:53 PM
  5. Use of domain password (& staff AUP, etc.) ;)
    By mark in forum School ICT Policies
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 29th June 2005, 02:36 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •