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General Chat Thread, Is it me ? Twitter in General; Originally Posted by pcstru Are you suggesting those that abuse move on or those that are being abused? I read ...
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    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    Are you suggesting those that abuse move on or those that are being abused?
    I read it as those that abuse... But, it could be taken either way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattx View Post
    Maybe I should have said something along the lines of if you are going to post something on twitter that you may know may cause a reaction from bigotted morons, don't expect not to have at least some backlash.
    Maybe I should have said something along the lines of if you are going to dress provocatively that you may know may cause some nutter to rape you, don't expect not to have at least some guy grope you.

    Maybe I should have said something along the lines of if you are going to say something in a pub that you may know may cause someone to get angry and beat you up, don't expect not to have at least some backlash.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattx View Post
    Didn't say that at all - you need reading lessons !!
    Nope, my reading skills are perfectly fine thanks. You may need some logic lessons though.

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    CAM
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    First off I suggest moving this behind the red door as this debate will get messy.

    Second two MPs suffered some very nasty abuse over a prolonged period. The people involved should be hunted down and brought to account. The third MP meanwhile attacked another user, suffered backlash and ended up claiming she was being "abused" when the stuff she retweeted was little more then typical Twitter political cannon fire. However, one of the first two MPs waded in encouraging her to ride the coat-tails of their own more severe case (which papers are already doing) and use it as a springboard to launch legal action to basically silence detractors. You may recognise the name on one of those retweets.

    Again....this should go behind the red door.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Maybe I should have said something along the lines of if you are going to dress provocatively that you may know may cause some nutter to rape you, don't expect not to have at least some guy grope you.
    However, a more realistic version would be "If you're going to wear revealing clothes, don't get angry when people look."

    I've watched Gok Wan. I know low cut tops are designed to draw attention there. You can't legitimately get angry when something achieves what's intended.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAM View Post
    First off I suggest moving this behind the red door as this debate will get messy.
    Seconded.

    Religion and Politics should always be red door'd

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattx View Post
    Maybe I should have said something along the lines of if you are going to post something on twitter that you may know may cause a reaction from bigotted morons, don't expect not to have at least some backlash. Then when the press gets involved you know its going to get worse.
    Perhaps you should post the exact examples you are referring to. There is a lot of stuff out there and it ranges from mild rhetoric to serious defamation.
    If after all that you don't agree, don't like, are getting concerned, report it and then delete the account.
    So if someone disagrees with me here and instead of sticking to discussion and debate, starts making threats of violence - that would be OK and I should leave?
    I cannot understand people who complain about something that they actually have control over in regards to not having to either do it, read it, or be part of it. If you don't like football do you watch it or play it ? If you don't like taking a bath, do you still continue to have a bath [ yes I know these are rather stupid and extreme points ] but if you have an element of control over something you don't like or feel threatened by, don't do it !!
    The problem is you seem to be talking about free speech. The "if you don't like it, don't do it" is incompatible with that.
    Don't give out personal information over the internet if there is the slightest chance of some idiot abusing it or you. Use a bit of common, although over the last 10 years or so this seems to be lacking from a great deal of people....
    I think it's important that MP's and other campaigners are able to stand by their statements and have their name associated with them. I also think it is important that they should be allowed to make their points and not in the course of that be subject to threats of violence. If people who campaign for equal rights were to be, as you seem to suggest, silenced by threats of violence, 50% of the population would probably not have the vote. Do you think that would that be a good thing?

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    I'm surprised 'Call me Dave' has not got involved and tried to ban / censor it all....... That seems to be his answer to all of this.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    The problem is you seem to be talking about free speech. The "if you don't like it, don't do it" is incompatible with that.
    Free speech doesn't mean you can abuse people.

    It's to do with [IIRC] controversial ideas, criticisms of the government and general "this is my opinion" statements. Not threats of rape.

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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    However, a more realistic version would be "If you're going to wear revealing clothes, don't get angry when people look."
    No, because that'd equate being abused on twitter with being looked at...

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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    Free speech doesn't mean you can abuse people.
    Right. Nor does it mean you can slander, incite to violence or even incite hatred.
    It's to do with [IIRC] controversial ideas, criticisms of the government and general "this is my opinion" statements. Not threats of rape.
    The latest spat seems to have come about after Caroline Criado-Perez successfully campaigned to have a woman featured on a banknote. Nothing particularly controversial there - at least for anyone who's knuckles don't scrape the pavement. Threats of rape as a response are not protected under free speech. They are intimidation by threats of violence and should be treated as any such threat should be.

    I particularly like Mary Beards attitude refusing to be cowed by abusive tweets.

    (from the register)


    Perhaps, though, Cambridge Professor Mary Beard, who said she would not be "terrorised" online, has the best attitude towards trolls. She retweeted an abusive message from a 20-year-old bloke calling himself Oliver Rawlings, who pathetically labelled her a "filthy old slut".

    Then one of the prof's fans told the classicist, who last night was on our screens presenting a programme about the life of Caligula, that "if you would like to send a copy [of] @Rawlings153's tweet to his mother, Joanne, I'd be happy to give you the postal address".

    Rawlings was quickly unnerved by the experience. He deleted his slut tweet and apologised for being so rude to Prof Beard. Perhaps we should all take heart from that.

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    Life doesn't have a report abuse button. If you suffer abuse that you deem is too much then you inform the police.

    What needs to change is the fact online abuse is not seen as "real" by the courts in many cases. Or, if they acknowledge it, it is not seen on the same level as harassment offline. As many people have said, twitter has had a report button for ages. If you use a third party app (like many do) then this might not show any more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    No, because that'd equate being abused on twitter with being looked at...
    True, but it depends on what caused the abuse in the first place.

    If it was something that was intended to deliberately annoy people, then you can't be surprised when people respond negatively. Granted, rape threats are on the most extreme end of negative reactions [which is putting it mildly] but some people lack the linguistic ability to properly articulate their point and are reverting to profanity and intimidation.

    However, responding to something innocuous like "I like chicken" with rape threats... Yeah, that's messed up.

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    I think that if a woman can't make a point over the internet without some men making violent threats, it is a sad reflection on the morals and intelligence of the male of the species. Do these men feel threatened maybe?

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    1. Threatened? Almost certainly, no-one should have an opinion that conflicts with my own. 2. Sense of entitlement? damn right, the power of anonymity on the internet means I can inflict MY opinion on anyone I like (see section '1.'), and if they don't agree with that then I can say whatever I like without fear of reprisal.

    But then that begs the question of how we can remove the mindset that anonymity allows us to be as vile and ridiculous as we like WITHOUT affording everyone the basic right to privacy?

    V-Chips? Segregation? Censorship? For some reason, I can't see any form of legislation making this better, and short of the world becoming a nicer place to live in, I don't see what can easily be done about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalHeretic View Post
    But then that begs the question of how we can remove the mindset that anonymity allows us to be as vile and ridiculous as we like WITHOUT affording everyone the basic right to privacy?
    A right to privacy is not a right to avoid the consequences of your actions, when those actions are either illegal or actionable under civil law. The mindset that thinks it is, is simply mistaken.
    V-Chips? Segregation? Censorship? For some reason, I can't see any form of legislation making this better, and short of the world becoming a nicer place to live in, I don't see what can easily be done about it.
    All the legislation that is needed is already on the books. The OP seemed (it's not quite clear what he was saying and he has chosen not to clarify) to be suggesting that people who have been on the receiving end of threats should put up with it or more, shut up if they don't like being threatened in response to their advocacy. That's rather ... dumb IMO.

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