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General Chat Thread, Cameron is at it again..... in General; Also I would like to ask: If we are putting this ban in place, are we going to make tabloids ...
  1. #166
    Sdrawkcab's Avatar
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    Also I would like to ask: If we are putting this ban in place, are we going to make tabloids like The Sun top-shelf publications too? Page 3 is arguably more accessible than most internet pornography, since any kid can easily access the papers outside a newsagents and most adults probably wouldn't stop them or refuse sale. If you think that Page 3 isn't harmful, remember that during the olympics last year the biggest photo of a woman in the paper was of a topless woman. What kind of message do you think that sends to young people?

    The answer, for the record, is No. David Cameron is a giant hypocrit.
    Last edited by Sdrawkcab; 23rd July 2013 at 01:45 PM.

  2. #167

    Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sdrawkcab View Post
    Do we know what form the blocking system is going to take anyway? The current DNS blocking they're doing (i'd assume with Cleanfeed but I don't know) relies on you using DNS servers provided by your ISP. If you set your PCs DNS to Google DNS (8.8.8.8/8.8.4.4) you can get around it that way and still get access to blocked sites like The Pirate Bay and KAT with no problems. If this is how they're planning on blocking porn too, I can't see it being very long before kids start figuring things like this out.
    No that's not how cleanfeed works at all. The ISPs network routers maintain a list of 'bad' IP addresses. If HTTP traffic from subscribers is heading for these IPs then they get transparently proxied through the IWF servers with some basic url blacklist checking done. Otherwise the traffic is allowed to go on it's merry way. There's several fairly obvious ways around this. In order of craftyness:

    1) Use TOR or a VPN.
    2) stay away from port 80 (IRC DCC, FTP, Usenet, Bittorrent, Whatever).
    3) Use SSL
    4) Find a mirror/web proxy.

    The DNS workaround you posted will not work for cleanfeed.

    It's also worth noting that individal ISP blocks are not implemented the same way, leading to differing behaviour and levels of effectiveness. For example on Virgin, trying to access the TPB you cannot get to the TPB landing page. However you can pull up any of the other pages on the site without triggering the 'block' page. So a simple google search to find the direct link to what you want works, or 3rd party search tools that use the TPB web API still work fine.

    Also consider this effort is only concentrating on the bigger ISP and only on connections considered to be 'consumer'. If you pay a little more a month for a business class connection off XILO or AAISP you can continue on your merry way without worry about this affecting you.
    Last edited by Geoff; 23rd July 2013 at 02:24 PM.

  3. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by edutech4schools View Post
    Yes but if the magazine shop came to your sons bedroom would you not want the xxx mags removed from the pile before your son gets to view them.
    I would not let the magazine shop loose in my son's bedroom without me being there to supervise in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by edutech4schools View Post
    And do not say the parent should be the one to remove the xxx mags as 99% of parents have no idea how to stop internet porn being viewed by kids.
    No, but the parents should know how to exercise parental supervision and responsibility (say by opting into this kind of blocking on an opt in basis).

    The idea that parents don't know what they're doing isn't an argument in favour of blocking: The only people who think web content blocking is the answer are those who do not understand how it works, and in that scenario I'd suggest that a false sense of security is worse than none at all.

  4. #169

    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    The DNS workaround you posted will not work for cleanfeed.
    Which I'm sure nobody would have a problem with... IF IT WAS BEING USED FOR WHAT IT WAS INTENDED FOR!!! [How do I grammar?]


    All this talk of false positives... and I just got hit with the block page while searching for "twiglet princess zelda" for a joke. This is going to be really annoying if it actually happens.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    For example on Virgin, trying to access the TPB you cannot get to the TPB landing page. However you can pull up any of the other pages on the site without triggering the 'block' page. So a simple google search to find the direct link to what you want works, or 3rd party search tools that use the TPB web API still work fine.
    False.

    I have a Virgin connection and have to use a proxy. [Which I've had to change twice.]
    Last edited by X-13; 23rd July 2013 at 02:28 PM.

  5. #170

    Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    All this talk of false positives... and I just got hit with the block page while searching for "twiglet princess zelda" for a joke. This is going to be really annoying if it actually happens.
    It will just drive people to use methods (like TOR or VPNs) to get the content that are even harder to police. Look at what's happening with online piracy for example, the drive by the music and movie industries to stamp it out is just driving the technology forward even faster.

    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    I have a Virgin connection and have to use a proxy. [Which I've had to change twice.]
    Depends on the mirror you get. Some of the IPs are blacklisted.
    Last edited by Geoff; 23rd July 2013 at 02:32 PM.

  6. #171

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    Look at what's happening with online piracy for example, the drive by the music and movie industries to stamp it out is just driving the technology forward even faster.
    Actually we have just had the biggest drop in illegal downloads ever. Mainly due to the mass take up of streaming services.

  7. #172

    Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edutech4schools View Post
    Actually we have just had the biggest drop in illegal downloads ever. Mainly due to the mass take up of streaming services.
    Measured how? and by who? How legal are those streaming services? I have different numbers here (from OFCOM).
    Last edited by Geoff; 23rd July 2013 at 02:43 PM.

  8. #173

    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edutech4schools View Post
    Actually we have just had the biggest drop in illegal downloads ever. Mainly due to the mass take up of streaming services.
    If it's easy to obtain legally, and at a reasonable price, people will pay for it.

    Things locked behind expensive paywalls [like game of thrones, which requires you to subscribe to multiple tv channels you may not even want] or thing that are hard/impossible to get legally are pirated.

    On the topic of piracy... why is piracy wrong while second hand sales are fine?

    Both result in precisely [censored] all going to the creator.

    And why is it wrong to pirate something you can't get?

  9. #174

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edutech4schools View Post
    Actually we have just had the biggest drop in illegal downloads ever. Mainly due to the mass take up of streaming services.
    That's a big claim - got any facts to back it up? As @Geoff said, OFCOM appear to disagree with you

  10. #175

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    That's a big claim - got any facts to back it up? As @Geoff said, OFCOM appear to disagree with you
    just found this Collapse in illegal sharing and boom in streaming brings music to executives' ears | Music | The Guardian but it was a discussion on radio 4 the other day.

  11. #176

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    That's a big claim - got any facts to back it up? As @Geoff said, OFCOM appear to disagree with you
    just found this Collapse in illegal sharing and boom in streaming brings music to executives' ears | Music | The Guardian but it was a discussion on radio 4 the other day

  12. #177

    Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edutech4schools View Post
    The figures from OFCOM (July 2013) compared to the previous report (May 2013) show an overall increase of 18% in piracy for the 3 month period, although Ofcom pointed out that the rise in piracy coincides with an overall boost in the proportion of internet users accessing digital media content from 57% to 60% in the 3 month period.
    Last edited by Geoff; 23rd July 2013 at 03:13 PM.

  13. #178

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    Silly HBO. If this had been available months ago would there have been so much pirating?
    Watch Game of Thrones Online | Buy with blinkbox

    That said... 'most pirated' is quite a badge if you are still making money hand over fist.


    @Geoff:On SSL/TLS. I don't doubt that SSL interception is trivial for government backed network operators. A letter from the Cabinet Office, requesting root certificate access from one of the larger authorities, and they can intercept and monitor what ever they want. It is probably a weapon they currently deploy only in targeted cases in case a random Alice spots it, but with care, it can be done, and with additional complicity from say Google / Mozilla / Apple and Microsoft the likelihood of routine 'government backed' man-in-the-middle attack against PKI encrypted links seems a certainty.

    I digress.
    Last edited by psydii; 23rd July 2013 at 03:47 PM.

  14. #179
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    All I know is the conversation with my mom to remove this filter so my lifetime membership of big butts bonanza doesn't go to waste is going to be awkward...





  15. #180


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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    How do I go about making my own country? I want to declare war.
    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    Back to my previous statement. Does anyone know how I can start my own country?
    Funnily enough, I actually do You'll need to own your own plot of land and establish a form of government (though there are no rules on what type). Then you need to have at least 100 people legitimately apply for citizenship. Once they're approved you can declare yourself a country, though until you amass sizable support, landmass, wealth and military power, I doubt you'll ever be taken seriously as a country by the UN/rest of the world.
    ... I know this because there are two 'countries' on Reddit that are at war with each other..

    Back on topic, I posted a large rant on Facebook about this issue which I may have to copy-and-paste into here later (ironically, filters :P) and for the first time in my life I'll be writing to my local MP with regards to the issue. Doubtful I'll make any difference, but there's no harm in trying it. The whole 'if everybody did it together..' hope. There's been some very good discussion here, and there's been a lot of things I've wanted to directly respond to, but my post would be three-miles long of quotes, so I'll refrain. Interesting to read through.
    Last edited by Garacesh; 24th July 2013 at 12:44 PM.

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