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General Chat Thread, Gove at it again in General; A TA does not need specialist knowledge of a subject to help the child. but in any school a TA ...
  1. #31

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    A TA does not need specialist knowledge of a subject to help the child.
    but in any school a TA will know the CHILD often better than the teacher- this gives them a better idea of how to get an idea across

  2. #32

    LeMarchand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post
    Should we fire all IT technicians?
    Don't give him ideas!

  3. #33

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post
    Should we fire all IT technicians?
    Didn't the last governement try that? (BSF)

  4. #34
    mthomas08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    Didn't the last governement try that? (BSF)
    And look how that panned out, spent money like anything on everything. My previous school was in the planning phase (the final phase that didn't carry on). I was shocked at the prices of the equipment that we would have to purchase and all the good equipment going to be replaced. My boss at the time said to me it would get cancelled with the new gov and he was right...

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by beagle View Post
    IPPR put out a paper called EXCELLENCE AND EOUITY, which quotes this ...

    "This is largely because schools used TAs to work directly with lower attaining
    pupils, which in turn deprived them of contact time with a trained teacher" (Blatchford et al 2012).
    If I were you I'd put the IPPR paper in the recycling where it belongs.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post
    There are still specialist schools for certain types of children (disabled or behavioural issues), particularly in Lincolnshire, but oftentimes a child is served better by being integrated into mainstream education with some support than being split away into a specialist environment. It's about producing a rounded young adult as much as it is about teaching them, after all.
    This is the argument being put out, but I'm unconvinced by it. I don't know if it's better for the SEN child, and just as importantly for the other children in that child's class, to integrate them. I think it depends upon the nature of the SEN.

  7. #37
    Trapper's Avatar
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    I'd like to see him come into a special after sacking all the TAs. We have on average 1:3 staffing (in some cases 1:1) - so is he going to hire an extra 50 teachers to replace the 50 TAs (50x 21,000 (max grade) or 50x 31,000 (max MPS))?

    Idiot.
    Last edited by Trapper; 6th July 2013 at 06:01 PM.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by elsiegee40 View Post
    Gove's fag packet planning
    Quote of the week for me.!

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatpackhamster View Post
    Mmm, and she wasn't much cop either, although she was popular with the unions.

    AFAICT the problem is that the number of TAs has tripled since 2000. Instead of doing what they ought to be doing, which is offering assistance to children with SEN to enable them to integrate, they're now taking half or whole classes, and they're neither trained nor qualified for that.

    Anyone who's in favour of quality teaching in schools should balk at the use of semi-skilled labour. The teachers themselves ought to balk at it because it's doing down their profession.
    Thing is, that argument falls flat on its face when you compare it to the other policies this government introduced into the education sector. Such as unqualified teachers being allowed in free schools and academies.

    So, on one hand they're saying the army of 'cheap labour' are unqualified to teach and don't help anyone, but on the other hand they're saying unqualified people are ok to teach kids.

    As far as I'm concerned, TAs are worth every penny they get paid. The job they do is important from an 'SEN' stand point but also from a 'letting the teacher teach' standpoint. Examples of this would be if you have a disruptive child in a class. If there's no TA, that disruptive child can knock a good 10 minutes from a lesson's teaching time. If there is a TA, that TA can deal with it, reducing the disruption to teaching.

    The idea of 'inclusive' education is the problem in my mind. If a child has specialist needs, they should be taught in a specialist environment. The idea that they can be 'fixed' by putting them in a normal school is nonsense, and has been shown by a complete lack of improvement by including them in mainstream schools. Its damaging to the children in question, and to those around them, as more effort is put into them than the mainstream children.

  10. Thanks to localzuk from:

    j17sparky (6th July 2013)

  11. #40


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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    The idea of 'inclusive' education is the problem in my mind. If a child has specialist needs, they should be taught in a specialist environment. The idea that they can be 'fixed' by putting them in a normal school is nonsense, and has been shown by a complete lack of improvement by including them in mainstream schools. Its damaging to the children in question, and to those around them, as more effort is put into them than the mainstream children.
    Couldn't agree more. Comprehensive education is the same in my mind. An academic child may go on to be a "rocket scientist" in the correct environment. A non-academic may go on to learn a trade. Put them together in a comprehensive school and theres a good chance neither will achieve their full potential. How can a teacher be expected to cater for such different children? The non-academic will be bored doing the written work and will disrupt the learning of the academic. The academic will leave school with lower grades than expected, the non-academic will come out with no skills at all and will probably have a dislike/hatred of education and not want to go on to college to learn a trade.

    Bring back the eleven plus...
    Last edited by j17sparky; 6th July 2013 at 11:04 PM.

  12. #41
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    On about IT techs I think we're much more secure now than we have been as a disparate group in years.

    Academies and Free Schools are basically businesses, maintained schools are running more like businesses who appreciate professional diversity. It's now no longer all about the teachers. IT (corporate IT), finance (corp. finance dept.), pastoral (corp HR dept.) and business (corp. marketing and Ops management) are seen as equal professional partners by SLT and Governors.

  13. #42

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    @Trapper, I'm glad to hear this is the case in some places but it isn't the case everywhere yet and that is an entirely different battle to be fought. It should be that way as you say, but the entire country isn't quite there yet.

    When it comes to the specialist/mainstream debate, this has been going on for decades. At the end of the day it does always depend on the individual child of course, but there's also a case for suggesting that this is the very heart of the "differentiation" principle. Good teachers ought to be able to differentiate appropriately for individual classes and in principle this is absolutely true... however that depends on how well they are supported in doing so!

  14. #43

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    When I was at school we didnt have TAs because we were taught in rows, at desks, with little or no differentiation between levels of achievement - leaving many children struggling and the very bright ones bored.
    Now there is a much greater focus on group and peer-led learning which often means the class is divided up into small groups to do various differentiated tasks. TAs are invaluable here. I work in a junior school and although some TAs are indeed one-to-one, every class has a TA for the morning to help in literacy and numeracy. I can't see how the current methodology would survive without them.

  15. #44


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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    The idea of 'inclusive' education is the problem in my mind. If a child has specialist needs, they should be taught in a specialist environment. The idea that they can be 'fixed' by putting them in a normal school is nonsense, and has been shown by a complete lack of improvement by including them in mainstream schools. Its damaging to the children in question, and to those around them, as more effort is put into them than the mainstream children.
    I think it's ok to have specialist units within mainstream schools. Infact I think it's a really good use of resources to pool specialisms such as ASD units into larger schools as long as the money ringfenced for them is spent in the correct way.

  16. #45

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    Agreed - we're the recognised centre for that in our LEA and the school turns out a high proportion of successful children with additional needs through good differentiation and high levels of TA support during lessons. We have around 35 TAs, which isn't far off the number of QTS staff. This school would quickly become completely unrecognisable if the TAs were removed or simply not replaced.

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