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General Chat Thread, Gove at it again in General; Ignoring the actual reasoning behind it, is the GMB run by the same people that own the Daily Mail perchance?...
  1. #16

    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    Ignoring the actual reasoning behind it, is the GMB run by the same people that own the Daily Mail perchance?

  2. #17

    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatpackhamster View Post
    The teachers themselves ought to balk at it because it's doing down their profession.
    They don't care. They're still getting full pay for doing less work.

  3. #18
    mthomas08's Avatar
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    Not sure what to say about the OP, when I was in school there was no TA's. Maybe from the Gov's view if your a teacher and you have no control over your class then why are you teaching? Then again I have seen teachers control their classes and other teachers who let them run riot, just the same when I was a kid.

    Can you guess the abuse of IT equipment of those who let them do what they want?

  4. #19
    Gibson335's Avatar
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    My wife is a TA in a Primary. Her main responsibility is to work one-to-one with disabled children. Very often she does 'other duties' and has also often been left to be responsible for a whole class of kids for lenghty periods.

  5. #20


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    Quote Originally Posted by mthomas08 View Post
    Not sure what to say about the OP, when I was in school there was no TA's.
    I think when I was in school, there were whole schools which specialised in provision for those with more severe difficulties. Those don't exist any more which is where TA's came in (?).

  6. #21

    sparkeh's Avatar
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    The value of TAs depends, like all jobs, on the quality of people recruited, training provided, management and deployment.

    I know of schools where TAs are treated well with appropriate training for their role and are used well, eg taking small groups, working one to one with SEN kids and they are vital to the success of the school (and have had this recognised by OFSTED).
    On the flip side, I have seen schools that use them purely as admin assistants which I don't really think is the point of the role.

  7. #22
    Galway's Avatar
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    I personally think TA's started out with all the best intentions but like most things Schools find a way to implement it the wrong way.

    I cant comment on other schools but I know here I know of TAs who teach like a normal a teacher, prep like a normal teacher and is expected to function like a normal teacher but are TAs. I see lots of jobs which they really should not be doing and because they are TAs are term time only and dont have to attend insets for essential information.

    Id go along with the notion personally, get rid of the TAs.

  8. #23

    sparkeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galway View Post
    I personally think TA's started out with all the best intentions but like most things Schools find a way to implement it the wrong way.

    I cant comment on other schools but I know here I know of TAs who teach like a normal a teacher, prep like a normal teacher and is expected to function like a normal teacher but are TAs. I see lots of jobs which they really should not be doing and because they are TAs are term time only and dont have to attend insets for essential information.

    Id go along with the notion personally, get rid of the TAs.
    Whilst I agree that using TAs as cheap teachers is wrong I think that axing them all is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Tighter job descriptions and restrictions on duties would be a better option. This would probably lead to few numbers anyway and make schools concentrate TA use to duties that they were initially created for.

    Also, what will happen to pupil who are entitled to a certain number of hours one-to-one time which is currently covered by TAs?

  9. #24
    Galway's Avatar
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    You could argue the ifs and buts all day long. Does not mean the Ta is qualified to perform the one to one time.

    I can imagine a TA would not be fit for purpose with a one to one student doing french, unless she knew french of course.
    I know of 3 TAs here who help students in ICT lessons and both TAs have absolutely no clue about ICT. They are not contracted for insets and training and have no interest in doing it unpaid.

    A qualified teacher is better, but they cost more.

  10. #25

    sparkeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galway View Post
    You could argue the ifs and buts all day long. Does not mean the Ta is qualified to perform the one to one time.

    I can imagine a TA would not be fit for purpose with a one to one student doing french, unless she knew french of course.
    I know of 3 TAs here who help students in ICT lessons and both TAs have absolutely no clue about ICT. They are not contracted for insets and training and have no interest in doing it unpaid.

    A qualified teacher is better, but they cost more.
    Interesting point, I think there are possibly separate debates to be had over TAs in primary schools and secondary?
    I don't really have any knowledge or experience of secondary schools so can't comment on that.

  11. #26

    Ephelyon's Avatar
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    A TA does not necessarily require subject knowledge if they are working one-to-one or one-to-small-group with children with additional needs; what they do require knowledge of is those children themselves. They are acting in support of the learning process; what exactly is being learnt isn't so much at issue.

    Another reason to deploy TAs in a classroom including e.g. a few SEN kids with disruptive behaviour issues is to contain the disruption to that particular child, such that the negative behaviour does not spread to the rest of the learners.

  12. #27

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    IPPR put out a paper called EXCELLENCE AND EOUITY, which quotes this ...

    "This is largely because schools used TAs to work directly with lower attaining
    pupils, which in turn deprived them of contact time with a trained teacher" (Blatchford et al 2012).

  13. #28
    Disease's Avatar
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    Union Hysteria again, that's why I hate unions, TA's will not be sacked but not replaced after natural wastage, or retrained as teachers.

    Bloody Unions.

    230,000 classroom assistants face axe | The Sunday Times

  14. #29

    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    There are still specialist schools for certain types of children (disabled or behavioural issues), particularly in Lincolnshire, but oftentimes a child is served better by being integrated into mainstream education with some support than being split away into a specialist environment. It's about producing a rounded young adult as much as it is about teaching them, after all.

    A TA does not need specialist knowledge of a subject to help the child. They just need to be capable of learning. If a French lesson is teaching facial descriptions ("I have blue eyes and brown hair"...) the TA only needs to have heard what the teacher has taught that lesson, and understood it, to be able to explain it again to the student in a manner that works for them. That's differentiation, education's favourite buzzword of the last decade. You have a choice of a) a TA helping the child/children who learn in a different manner or b) the teacher dividing their time between the majority of the class learning one way and the minority who need the topic approaching differently. Arguably it's a more efficient use of resources to have a lower paid TA concentrating on that minority of students.

    Should TAs be leading whole classes? No. TA2 and TA3 can take small groups out to teach in a different environment when it suits, following a lesson plan set by the teacher, but TAs should not be cheap teachers. They have another, different role to fill though, and you shouldn't scrap them when their original purpose still exists.

    TAs also shouldn't need to be there to control the class, but we all know teachers at each end of the scale, and if a TA is capable of enforcing some much needed discipline, why shouldn't they? It's not their purpose, no, but it's often something they can do well (if they are a Mum's Army, after all, who better to control a room of unruly children?)

    I know of places where technology is implemented for technology's sake and the network isn't fit for purpose. I've seen network managers teaching lessons. Should we fire all IT technicians?

  15. #30

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    I think when I was in school, there were whole schools which specialised in provision for those with more severe difficulties. Those don't exist any more which is where TA's came in
    Special schools like that do exist-- I work in one, and was a TA a myself. TA's especial ours do an excellent job, and can, when working in conjunction with a good teacher enhance the teaching of the class. Everyone has skills that others don't have, and good teachers will recognise and use those skills for the benefit of the children.

    The problem currently is most councils have reshuffled special schools and given them specific designations, is, PCSN, ASD, etc. Then they try and get special schools to take children that are not under their designation- and with population growth there isn't room for more children. We were new build 5 years ago, and now we are oversubscribed with a waiting list. We are now being asking to push outreach support for secondary and primaries in the area, and most of the time it is our experienced TA's who are asked to go and help other TA's. Specialist teachers do go out, but then it is their specialist TA's covering the class as ASD pupils will kick off at the thought of an unknown and new face in their classroom.

    TA's help our teachers a lot- even if most of them cause problems for me- computer illiterate bunch!!lol- I understand the need for them.

    and the usual ender

    Gove is an idiot!

    took too long typing it seems!



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