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General Chat Thread, F1 Chat in General; It would be good for webber to go. He is in a team where he gets treated as a second ...
  1. #16

    nephilim's Avatar
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    It would be good for webber to go. He is in a team where he gets treated as a second rate driver, despite having the experience and capacity to be better if his car were treated the same as vettels.

    It would be good for him to do different racing where the cars are effectively built the same, just tuned differently.

  2. #17

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    I think Webber has made a good move there, he doesn't seem happy with the direction F1 is going with the tyres etc and has a new challenge with Porsche in endurance cars. I have to say, since the new tyres, DRS and Kers etc I've become less and less interested in F1, I much preferred it with fuel stops and tyres they could race on rather than having to manage them. I watched Le Mans at the weekend and really enjoyed it, the cars are basically doing a 24 hour sprint now and really push it. Watching the in car footage from the LMS P1 cars at night was just mind blowing and pretty scary, full respect to all the drivers in that race. It's a shame though that the race was overshadowed by the death of Allan Simonsen.

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  4. #18
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    Kimi won't take it. He doesn't need it. Put him in a Red Bull and it will just be him and Vettel in a 1-2 finish and there's no challenge in that for him.

  5. #19

    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    Wouldn't be sure - there would be added pressure on Vettel, enough to rattle him into some mistakes IMO.

  6. #20
    XiJ
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    Probably the right decision for Webber - though ill be sad to see him go.

    Can see Kimi going unless he's doing really well with Lotus this year. Kimi would give vettel a run for his money - the only thing is whether he'd put up with golden boys antics / preferential treatment.

  7. #21


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    All I can say is it's a good job Pirelli don't make condoms!!!

  8. 4 Thanks to laserblazer:

    Ad93 (1st July 2013), CAM (1st July 2013), PICNIC (1st July 2013), tech_guy (1st July 2013)

  9. #22

    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    Absolutely.
    I can't help but think we've been robbed of a very deserving British winner of the British Grand Prix thanks to this problem, but that's a tiny complaint compared to the safety of the drivers, teams, track staff and spectators which is paramount. Not that the FIA or Pirelli seem to care.

    I got rather fed up of Gary Anderson, the ex Jordan "Expert" who went to Turn 4 where it kept happening and showed us the "Razor Sharp Edges" of those kerbs. They are no more razor sharp than the end of the kerb outside my house, and the kerbs themselves are not as pronounced as many others around the track - I was personally very amazed at just how high the ones on the straight/finish straight are - they're about an inch high! That's par for the course.

    Plus of course those kerbs have been there longer than Pirelli have been in F1 this time around. The tyres have changed, the kerbs have not. Anyone therefore even thinking about blaming the kerb is either rather unintelligent, or is being told what to say by powers above.
    I really hope this problem is fixed. I've been really peed off with Pirelli all year. Of course they're not the only ones involved. People will jump to their defence saying "They're just doing what FIA instructed of them". That of course is bovine poo, they ARE providing those tyres but even if it's not in any written agreement, the FIA haven't instructed them to forgo safety to get the results they want. The buck stops with Pirelli. It's their PR they are destroying, and I don't think there's anyone in the UK that saw the race that is likely to be putting Pirelli rubber on their car in the near future.
    This is where proper testing should be revised. Here comes TestGate with Mercedes of course...
    Then some muppet teams (Lotus, Ferrari among a few others) refused to let them change the compound mid season. Well done, guys, well done. Slow clap.

    Politics aside, it was otherwise a reasonable race. Lewis still did us all very proud with a mammoth comeback, which for me puts him up for 50/50 driver of the day with Mark Webber, an honourary Brit of whom many of us rather like. Rosberg deserved his win and it's good to see Mercedes back up there in race pace too (no comments about whether testgate had any effect on that). Shame to see Vettel out - not. I sort of like the guy as a person but not a fan as a driver.

    Brings me to the spare seat for next year. I'd be surprised to see it go to anyone other than Ricciardo who also had a strong showing all weekend. Many people are expecting it to be Raikkonen though, but personally I can't see someone like Kimi putting up with Vettel or Red Bulls crap.

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  11. #23


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    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post
    Plus of course those kerbs have been there longer than Pirelli have been in F1 this time around. The tyres have changed, the kerbs have not.
    Lot's changes in F1 from year to year and the tyres haven't been exploding all year yet people have been running the kerbs at other circuits. Surely when you have a situation like this, then you look at all the possible contributing factors - including that teams may have been setting rather marginal tyre pressures.

  12. #24
    XiJ
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    The only thing stopping Kimi going to red bull is whether he is comfortable in the team - I think he would be. If he wants a championship winning car and they want the fastest driver available, it's a perfect match. As much as id like to see Riciardo on there.

    The race itself - Brundle summed it up perfectly "a great race for all the wrong reasons". Lewis looked a winner until his blow out and the Mercs look strong. Good point about Vettel - like him as a person, not a driver. Loved the reaction of the crowd to him and Webber calling him 'Michael'

    Tyres - very easy to lump all the blame on Pirelli. I still wouldn't hesitate to put then on my car though - as I'd tend to run the correct pressures and try to avoid curbs - even if they should cope with most of that.
    As much as I love excitement there is a big safety issue for me and that trumps everything else. These tyres should not be 'exploding' like that, full stop.

    But Pirelli *did* try to change the construction and lotus and Force India blocked it. The teams have to take some responsibility here too. Similarly the FIA who have barely said a word. But as its now a safety issue and Pirelli will no doubt be blamed, they must act now.
    Last edited by plexer; 1st July 2013 at 09:10 AM.

  13. #25

    tech_guy's Avatar
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    Glad I don't have shares in Pirelli - huge PR/marketing disaster for them.

  14. #26

    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    That's just it, @pcstru - the tyres HAVE been exploding all year...

    The buck stops with Pirelli. It's their company on the line. There's too many factors involved as was said but the buck stops there. For instance, what's stopping them going back to the tyres used at the back end of the last year?

  15. #27
    XiJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post

    For instance, what's stopping them going back to the tyres used at the back end of the last year?
    The teams!

    Pirelli wanted to.....

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  17. #28


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    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post
    That's just it, @pcstru - the tyres HAVE been exploding all year...
    15 failures so far before Silverstone, 2 per meeting. I don't recall them being catastrophic failures in the way they were at the weekend. Still, the point is to look at all the factors. In a sport where margins are thin, it's easy for several factors to combine in an unexpected way and cause a failure. The combination of high downforce/high speed corners, sharp kerbs, low pressures and tyres which are intended to wear out is probably not an exhaustive list. I don't see that it's safe to say "it's all the fault of the tyres" although they are obviously in the frame as a major contributing factor. With Spa coming up, understanding exactly what the cause is, is hugely important. You wouldn't want that happening half way round Eua Rouge.

    That said, F1 seems to me to get more and more artificial. It's less and less about teams going racing and more and more about money and selling the spectacle. The situation with tyres is pretty artificial in the first place. Two sets of cross plys for the whole weekend, that'd sort the men from the boys!

  18. #29
    speckytecky's Avatar
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    BBC Sport - Kimi Raikkonen set to join Fernando Alonso at Ferrari Groan this would be a great move for my hero Kimi I suspect and for Ferari but somehow I think a bad move for F1 where Kimi's cheeky chappie personality makes Lotus the interesting rebel team it has become.

  19. #30

    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    Lotus (aka Benetton) has pretty much always tried to retain that but time will tell. Raikkonen's been and done Ferrari before so I think he'll get on, the question is though, will he get on with the new Ferrari. It's more than likely he'd be better with whiney Ferrari than "you want me to do what? Go frack yourself!" at Red Bull.



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