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General Chat Thread, A Song of Ice & Fire / Game of Thrones Discussion - SO VERY MANY SPOILERS in General; There was a lot of polite and delicate discussion going on in the thread about Episode 9 of Season 3 ...
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    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Exclamation A Song of Ice & Fire / Game of Thrones Discussion - SO VERY MANY SPOILERS

    There was a lot of polite and delicate discussion going on in the thread about Episode 9 of Season 3 to try and avoid spoilers.

    But I don't want to avoid them all the time. I want full, frank and open discussion of the wildest conspiracy theories.

    So I will say it now, once, at the start of this thread.

    This thread will be full spoilers for the novels of A Song of Ice & Fire (aka Game of Thrones). DO NOT KEEP READING IF YOU'VE NOT READ UP TO THE END OF BOOK FIVE.








    Seriously!



    Turn back!



    Last chance!



    Right then I'll kick off with (SERIOUSLY I'M ABOUT TO SAY SPOILERS RIGHT NOW): what do you think is happening up North as of the end of DWD? Has Ramsay Bolton really defeated Stannis? Is Jon really dead or is he about to rise again as Azor Ahai, or as a warg in Ghost's body? Will we ever find out where the bloody hell Rickon is?

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    tmcd35's Avatar
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    How do I answer with out spoilers appearing in iSpy?

    EDIT: Okay, If this works I'm now editing and no spoiler should appear elsewhere....


    Rikkon - I think he's a "lost character". He seems to be totally forgotten about and I don't think will turn up again.
    Jon Snow - That ending caught me by surprise! I'll be almost disappointed now if he somehow raises from the dead but I've heard rumors that say he will to full fill The Red Lady's prophecies.
    Stannis - I though he shivered to death outside Winterfell?

    Also, what up with them wolves? Will Arya's wolf ever find it's way back to her? It was chased out when Lady was put down and hasn't been seen or heard of since.
    Last edited by tmcd35; 17th June 2013 at 03:30 PM.

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    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Alas, I forgot about iSpy. Perhaps we will need to preface our posts with long pre-ambles so nothing shows up in the first couple of lines and therefore keeps iSpy safe and clean. It's a shame it compresses the line breaks, they're an easy way of hiding things below the fold.

    I doubt that GRRM has forgotten Rickon, but I'm not sure how much impact he'll have on proceedings - though he is now the heir to Winterfell, with Bran permanently off up North (so it seems). Perhaps Manderley will produce him at some point and get the Starks reinstated as Wardens of the North.

    All we know of Stannis at the end of DWD is what we're told by Ramsay Bolton's letter, and there's far from any guarantee that he's telling the truth. We know that Stannis was in some big snowdrifts, stuck with his army, about to do something... but we don't know how that turned out. I reckon Ramsay is bluffing on that count - though maybe not about his capture of Mance Rayder.

    Arya's wolf has come up a few times - it was strongly hinted that she was leading the pack of wolves around the Brotherhood Without Banner's area, and I seem to recall some interaction with Lady Stoneheart as well. Arya kept having wolf dreams in Book Three that implied Nymeria was nearby.

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    Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler.

    Jon Snow is BLATENTLY the Son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. As for being stabbed and left for dead at Castle Black I think Melisandre will have something to say about that...

    I also like how there is now another Targaryen Prince in play although the Dorne storylines have irritated me a bit really as they don't seem to be amounting to anything other than a vaguely threatening presence that obviously looks like it is going to side with Targaryen rule.

    I like how Daenerys has been dumped in the middle of another Khalesar with just a Dragon for company but again I can't see the point - if this had been done BEFORE she had the awesome Unsullied it might have been a decisive turning point, now it just feels as though she's cut her losses and is starting again. All the dithering and pointless turning in circles in 'A Dance with Dragons' has left me quite frustrated as all the progress made in books 1-4 was pretty much nuked by ADWD.

    The Sansa/Alayne Stone story line is PANTS. I LOVE that Sansa and Tyrion were 'reluctant bedfellows' and I liked the relationship dynamic. Tyrion is my favourite character but ADWD turned him into a bit of a loon with the 'Where do Whores go' thing getting REALLY tired REALLY fast. Tyrion murdering his father was GENIUS and I love how his true nature showed him to be more like Tywin than any of his 'Normal' children. I am really rooting for Tyrion to end up with Casterly Rock. I'm also really rooting for Sansa to realise that as husbands go, Tyrion was pretty good to her.

    I hope to see them back together at the end of the series but I have a suspicion that Tyrion might not make it out of the series alive.

    That being said, I can't imagine why GRRM would kill off the most loved character...

    The developments in Brans story line are interesting and it SEEMS as though Bran is being groomed to take his place among the roots of the Weirwoods but I can't see Bran abandoning his responsibilities or the Reed siblings and Hodor just leaving him there... I liked the hint that Bran could communicate across the timeline though...

    As for Rickon, he comes across like a bit of a twerp in the books so I don't find myself caring overmuch about his outcome.

    I'd like to see Nymeria appear again but Aryas current status seems to have her just cruising along at the House of Black and White - I much preferred her when she was on the road with the Hound tbh.
    Last edited by AMLightfoot; 17th June 2013 at 03:47 PM.

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    Random iSpy avoiding preface blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda SPOILERS

    Agreed on the Jon Snow front, I've been going through the novels again in audiobook format and Book One is very careful with all its mentions of Ned promising Lyanna and returning with Jon.

    Another one I've heard that I'm not so sure on is that Tyrion is the Mad King's son, having raped Lady Joanna Lannister. There are a few hints here and there of Tywin having to acknowledge Tyrion as his son by all the laws of men etc. but I think I prefer that Tywin just resents Tyrion for his appearance and his weaknesses. It takes something out of the story if Tyrion turns out to be yet another hidden Targaryen.

    But it does seem as though Daenerys, Jon & Tyrion are the main characters of the story, and the dragon has three heads...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post
    Random iSpy avoiding preface blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda SPOILERS

    Agreed on the Jon Snow front, I've been going through the novels again in audiobook format and Book One is very careful with all its mentions of Ned promising Lyanna and returning with Jon.

    Another one I've heard that I'm not so sure on is that Tyrion is the Mad King's son, having raped Lady Joanna Lannister. There are a few hints here and there of Tywin having to acknowledge Tyrion as his son by all the laws of men etc. but I think I prefer that Tywin just resents Tyrion for his appearance and his weaknesses. It takes something out of the story if Tyrion turns out to be yet another hidden Targaryen.

    But it does seem as though Daenerys, Jon & Tyrion are the main characters of the story, and the dragon has three heads...
    Yes, but you are overlooking the new Targaryen Prince that is holed up in Griffins roost...

    I think Tyrion is the MOST Lannister of his Siblings if you want the truth.

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    Joanne's Avatar
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    well that serves me right for reading... damn. I've only watched the programme!!

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    I can't believe I spent so many months ploughing through all the books and yet, remember so little of them.

    Must be my age :-(.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMLightfoot View Post
    Yes, but you are overlooking the new Targaryen Prince that is holed up in Griffins roost...

    I think Tyrion is the MOST Lannister of his Siblings if you want the truth.
    I'm not certain he is a Targaryen - it's possible, but it seems unlikely that a) he was smuggled out b) he was kept quiet for 15+ years without any rumour reaching the ears of Varys. I suspect he may be a fake who's been groomed to lead... possibly he's a Blackfyre descendant. I'd rather keep Tyrion a Lannister though, so I'd prefer Young Griff to be who he's said to be!

    Possible surprise ending: after all the jostling for the throne, and all the building threat of White Walkers, everyone dies of Greyscale instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joanne View Post
    well that serves me right for reading... damn. I've only watched the programme!!
    You were warned!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMLightfoot View Post
    Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler. Meaningless ramble text to hide the spoiler.

    Jon Snow is BLATENTLY the Son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. As for being stabbed and left for dead at Castle Black I think Melisandre will have something to say about that...
    Exactly what I have been thinking. The whole Eddard is completely flawless, but has an illegitimate son has never sat right with me. It makes far more sense that Jon is his nephew and he has been protecting him, mostly from Robert probably.

    Nymeria has been references multiple times, people talking about a massive pack of wolves taking over the river lands. Almost like she is gathering an army to protect the north? She was named after a warrior queen who rallied war ships... I reckon Arya will learn of her warg powers while following the house of Black and White, see what is going on back home through the eyes of her wolves and travel back, possibly with Danny.

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    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Confusus say reading iSpy may spoil the spoilers with spoiled spoils for the spoiled. STOP READING NOW............................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .......

    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    I can't believe I spent so many months ploughing through all the books and yet, remember so little of them.

    Must be my age :-(.
    Same here! I watched the first two seasons then couldn't wait so read all the books. Now I've heard about the ending of season 3 so I'm currently rewatching from the beginning again! I swear I'm imagining seeing things they haven't even filmed yet!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by AMLightfoot View Post
    Jon Snow is BLATENTLY the Son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. As for being stabbed and left for dead at Castle Black I think Melisandre will have something to say about that...
    I wondered something like that - but then the hair is the wrong colour (They made too big a deal of hair colour with Joffrey for John Snow to be a Targaryen. Although, obviously that could have been inherited from his mother!?!)

    I also like how there is now another Targaryen Prince in play although the Dorne storylines have irritated me a bit really as they don't seem to be amounting to anything other than a vaguely threatening presence that obviously looks like it is going to side with Targaryen rule.
    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post
    I'm not certain he is a Targaryen - it's possible, but it seems unlikely that a) he was smuggled out b) he was kept quiet for 15+ years without any rumour reaching the ears of Varys. I suspect he may be a fake who's been groomed to lead... possibly he's a Blackfyre descendant.
    Sounds like the possible John Snow story line above?



    For my sanity - what happened to Gendry (I forgot). Was he killed off or just faded into the distance - another character that went nowhere?

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    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Confusus say reading iSpy may spoil the spoilers with spoiled spoils for the spoiled. STOP READING NOW............................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .......

    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    For my sanity - what happened to Gendry (I forgot). Was he killed off or just faded into the distance - another character that went nowhere?
    In the books he joins the Brotherhood Without Banners (and actually gets to stay with them instead of being sold off to Melisandre) and is later smithing at an inn - Brienne meets him near the end of book four (I think, could be five, who bloody knows)


    I'm hoping that - with only two books to go - GRRM starts reeling everything in a bit again, as it's gotten a bit unwieldy. I got a bit annoyed when that Dornish prince got cooked, because we'd spent so long on that plotline and it came to nothing. It didn't even seem to advance Dany's plot, particularly. Likewise the Dornish princess trying to put Myrcella on the throne - it just felt like filler, and if ever there were books that didn't need filler...

    EDIT: Turns out quotes don't get shown in iSpy and are therefore no use as padding. Bah. It would be useful to be able to opt a forum thread out of iSpy!
    Last edited by sonofsanta; 18th June 2013 at 09:06 AM.

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    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Alas he doesn't appear to be an author who can reign anything in I'm half expecting 2014 to come and go with the next installment being split in two...

    EDIT: I must admit their are too many plot lines and I completely forget where we are up to on each one - or in which book which events happened in.

    I was surprised that the TV show is up to the Red Wedding, but then surprised they hadn't filmed Joffreys death. See I just can't get anything straight - argh!
    Last edited by tmcd35; 18th June 2013 at 09:10 AM.

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    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    Alas he doesn't appear to be an author who can reign anything in I'm half expecting 2014 to come and go with the next installment being split in two...
    I laughed a bitter laugh at the end of Book Four, when GRRM says in an author's note that Book Five was already half written and would follow next year. It took five years.

    (Not that I minded then, as I only started reading after season one, so book five had just come out for me )

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    iSpy spacing.............. .............. .............. .............. .............. .............. .............. .............. .............. .............. .............. .............. .............. .............. .............. .............. ..............

    From the other thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by AMLightfoot View Post
    LOL Are you referring to what I think you're referring to regarding the events surrounding the wedding of Margery and Joffrey or are you referring to that most excellent conversation between Tywin and Tyrion in which Tyrion makes an awesome point?
    Not looking forward to the latter at all, because Charles Dance has been absolutely bloody incredible as Tywin Lannister, much better than the book incarnation, and I don't want him to die anyone who will sit and coldly tell Joffrey it is his bedtime in the middle of the day is a character I want hanging around still.

    Plus Tyrion was always at his best when sparring with his father. As soon as he proves that no, Tywin Lannister does not poop gold, he just wanders off over the sea muttering about where whores go, and becomes incredibly boring. He takes himself out of the game, and he was the most entertaining player.



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