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General Chat Thread, Game of Thrones - S03E09 (Possible Spoilers) in General; Originally Posted by nephilim You know who the best character in the whole series is? Hodor Seriously, that guy is ...
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    AMLightfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    You know who the best character in the whole series is?

    Hodor

    Seriously, that guy is so helpful, to everyone, and they treat him like a slave effectively.
    LOL. You think so? This brain damaged bloke was cared for and looked after by everyone at Winterfell. He's given jobs to do to make himself useful and when Bran is hurt he's given the job of carrying around one of the HEIRS of the Stark family - quite a prominent position. When Theon sacked Winterfell, Hodor was hidden and protected and now they are on the road he is no more of a slave than Osha. He is free to leave but due to his mental deficiencies he can't look after himself. Sounds to me like he's well cared for and an important person to the Stark household. So important that Bran can't really do without him.

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta
    EDIT: my warning of what has been revealed on TV came too late stupid work phone calls! @AMLightfoot - we're keeping secret anything what hasn't been in the TV show up to this point, so be vewy, vewy caweful...
    Sorry, saw the 'spoiler' warning and thought it was a bit of in-the-know discussion. My bad.

  2. #47

    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    What about Syrio Forel, though? We've not seen him turn up again anywhere, and he could still be alive... though I fear it unlikely, happy endings and all that.

  3. #48
    JohnCondon's Avatar
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    Anyway, we've got one more episode this season. Season 4 to deal with the remainder of book 3.
    Then, assuming they don't mix things up massively, we start to get a strongly different tale being told as the TV show will have to merge books 4 and 5 together in order to tell the story.

    For those who are not aware the timelines of books 4 and 5 are quite "confusing". Specifically because G.R.R decided to take half the characters and tell their stories in the first book (going from points in time A to B) and then tell teh remaining 50% in book 5 (again going from point in time A to B).
    I can't see a television audience being able to handle the timeline suddenly shifting back to the end of two seasons earlier in order to preserve that narrative format.
    So expect to see books 4 & 5 mushed together for the TV.

    and as they are both easily big enough to require two seasons each... we are at least 5 years away form book 6 being televised. Which is a good job as G.R.R. hasn't finished it yet.
    This of course assumes the show remains popular and they deliver it in its entirety and don't finish it after season 7 (as some worrying rumours have been seen to imply).

  4. #49

    LeMarchand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post
    What about Syrio Forel, though? We've not seen him turn up again anywhere, and he could still be alive... though I fear it unlikely, happy endings and all that.
    There are theories that he could be one of those people that can change their faces, but people who have far more in-depth knowledge of the books (and possibly GRRM?) reckon not.

  5. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMLightfoot View Post
    LOL. You think so? This brain damaged bloke was cared for and looked after by everyone at Winterfell. He's given jobs to do to make himself useful and when Bran is hurt he's given the job of carrying around one of the HEIRS of the Stark family - quite a prominent position. When Theon sacked Winterfell, Hodor was hidden and protected and now they are on the road he is no more of a slave than Osha. He is free to leave but due to his mental deficiencies he can't look after himself. Sounds to me like he's well cared for and an important person to the Stark household. So important that Bran can't really do without him.
    Granted Bran can't do without him (though bran should never have climbed the tower in the first instance sparking the war!

    Hodor is given horrible jobs (outside of carrying Bran), and whilst some of the jobs are ok, the bulk seem to be the stuff they wouldn't even have serfs do!

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    LeMarchand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCondon View Post
    So expect to see books 4 & 5 mushed together for the TV.

    and as they are both easily big enough to require two seasons each...
    I'd disagree strongly. There's a lot of chaff in 4 & 5. I got the distinct feeling that GRRM was losing sight of where he was going and (particularly with Book 5) felt he had to publish something. I, for one, could happily do without a certain character spending so much time in Book 5 preoccupied with their love life and definitely without another's extended boat ride!

    AFAIK the show is (roughly) going to be S4=B3, S5=B4, S6=B5, and as "7 seasons" has been mentioned it could even be tighter than that. (S5=the worthwhile bits of B4/5?)

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    FWIW I don't believe that Syrio Forel is alive. I think he was exactly what he seemed to be - a fencing tutor and I think his death was symbolic as we know that Arya is walking a very unconventional path and I think Syrio's death was her first 'taste' so to speak. I don't think he is a servant of the House of Black and White although we know Jaquen Haggar (Sp?) definitely is and we've already seen him work his 'magic' in the TV series although it bothers me a little bit that his interactions with Arya aren't given more focus as they are key to her story progression.

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    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Books 1-3 had the definite feel of a trilogy. I'm sure I read that 4-6 were meant to be an equivalent trilogy set 5 years after the events of 1-3, but when writing 4 GRRM found he was spending so much time in flashback recounting what had happened that he decided to just write it normally.

    I suspect the problem is that he wrote too much whilst headed along the first path and couldn't bring himself to throw out all those words, hence we get a lot of treading water. Book 4 in particular gets very repetitive in a way he avoided superbly in Books 1-3 - certainly Cersei's chapters all seem to be repeats of each other, in terms of how they progress the character or the storyline.

    I'm with you on Syrio @AMLightfoot; I want to know WTH is going on in Oldtown though. That's obviously where JH was headed in the first place. Hopefully we'll get answers in book 6 now Slayer is there.

    (trying my best to use nicknames to avoid spoilers)
    Last edited by sonofsanta; 7th June 2013 at 03:39 PM. Reason: Slayer, not Killer. D'oh!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post
    Books 1-3 had the definite feel of a trilogy. I'm sure I read that 4-6 were meant to be an equivalent trilogy set 5 years after the events of 1-3, but when writing 4 GRRM found he was spending so much time in flashback recounting what had happened that he decided to just write it normally.

    I suspect the problem is that he wrote too much whilst headed along the first path and couldn't bring himself to throw out all those words, hence we get a lot of treading water. Book 4 in particular gets very repetitive in a way he avoided superbly in Books 1-3 - certainly Cersei's chapters all seem to be repeats of each other, in terms of how they progress the character or the storyline.

    I'm with you on Syrio @AMLightfoot; I want to know WTH is going on in Oldtown though. That's obviously where JH was headed in the first place. Hopefully we'll get answers in book 6 now Killer is there.

    (trying my best to use nicknames to avoid spoilers)
    Cersei is kinda annoying. I like how Jamies character changes as a result of his journey with Brienne of Tarth (all TV friendly). I, too, am interested in what interest THoBaA has in Oldtown. I'd like to see how our little friend gets out of the predicament he's in at the end of DwD.

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    I found that, when reading book 5, because of how books 4 and 5 had been written (as two narratives in parralel) and released YEARS apart!! That I had to go back and re-read sections ofbook 4 to remind myself of what had happened.
    Also there were massive periods of Deja Vu (obviously) and confusing parts where I was like..
    "Hang on? Isn't so and so in this location now not here?" all of which was because the events in the two books covered the same narrative span.

    So if they do manage to do books 4 and 5 as just two seasons... it's going to have to be s4 - b4/5 (first halves), s5 -b4/5 (second halves). Although I do find it a bit tough to think of what would be the theoretical season 4 "finale" in that structure....Season 5 finales are obvious and aplenty though

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    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Actually watched the episode on Friday night - was a bag of nerves through the whole thing because I knew what was coming, they ratcheted the tension up for readers from the first scene didn't they? I think they lost something from the books by not having Cat go on and on about the laws of hospitality, as that's what makes it such a shock in the books, but obviously it was still enough of a shock to the internet so maybe they really didn't need it.

    That got messy, though, more so than I expected. It was smaller scale than I imagined it - you didn't see the whole Stark army getting slaughtered whilst drunkenly celebrating - but they really ratcheted the gore up.

    Wondering if they'll follow the Stoneheart plotline... (do NOT Google if you don't know, spoilers!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post
    Wondering if they'll follow the Stoneheart plotline... (do NOT Google if you don't know, spoilers!)
    I've always wondered if the actor originally cast as the main character in that plotline read ahead and thought "maybe I'll drop out now". (Hope that's vague enough - couldn't work out how to do spoiler tags).

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post

    Wondering if they'll follow the Stoneheart plotline... (do NOT Google if you don't know, spoilers!)
    I would hope so as it is a fairly key development in the Brienne/Jamie storylines.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeMarchand
    I've always wondered if the actor originally cast as the main character in that plotline read ahead and thought "maybe I'll drop out now". (Hope that's vague enough - couldn't work out how to do spoiler tags).
    I don't understand, which actor are you referring to? Stoneheart themselves?

    Also, I believe the Spoiler tags are something custom-installed on some BB boards. The syntax used to be [ SPOILER ] [/ SPOILER ] without the spaces obviously.

    Let's see: [spoiler]Monsieur, with zeeze hidden plot points you are really spoiling us![/spoiler]

    Edit: Guess not.

  14. Thanks to AMLightfoot from:

    Rawns (10th June 2013)

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMLightfoot View Post
    Also, I believe the Spoiler tags are something custom-installed on some BB boards. The syntax used to be [ SPOILER ] [/ SPOILER ] without the spaces obviously.

    Let's see: [spoiler]Monsieur, with zeeze hidden plot points you are really spoiling us![/spoiler]

    Edit: Guess not.
    Good effort.

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    LeMarchand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMLightfoot View Post
    I don't understand, which actor are you referring to? Stoneheart themselves?
    Yes - in the (unbroadcast) pilot version LS was played by a different actor.

    I've changed the font colour, which works in my colour scheme, but apologies if not in everyone's. Made the size as small as I could, too.

    ...which doesn't work in "ISpy". Corrected, but many apologies if anyone was caught out.
    Last edited by LeMarchand; 10th June 2013 at 02:21 PM.



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