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General Chat Thread, Question for religious folk in General; This has sparked my interest out of a video going round from sky news of a woman who lost her ...
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    mrbios's Avatar
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    Question for religious folk

    This has sparked my interest out of a video going round from sky news of a woman who lost her dog after the Oklahoma tornado and the dog appearing as she's being interviewed.

    Essentially all the comments are thanking god for answering her prayers and what not, lots of comments going to similar effect, as well as the woman in the video thanking god. What i can't grasp is how someone can thank a deity after such an event?

    I mean if "God" caused that dog to be alive and found, then why not everyone else such as the children that are missing or dead? Why thank god for saving one life but taking another? Why thank god for saving someone and not curse him for causing the tornado?

    It probably makes sense to a religious person but as an atheist/agnostic (i sometimes like to play with ideas making me agnostic but generally have a strong opinion that we're on our own haha) i just can't understand the thought pattern that follows when someone thanks god for something AFTER a catastrophic event?!

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    religion isnt rational you either believe in whatever you believe and nothing will shake that or you think its all a load of made up tosh. its like surveys the question dictates the answer and people have blind spots

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    Alkaline's Avatar
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    It depends if you think god caused the event. And if he did does he care about individual life.

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    The thing is, if you are religious then you believe that God has a plan that is not revealed to us (I think)
    I've always thought that if there was a God, he knows what we are going to do but he does not control us or the earth. Which explains why people get cancer, and there are tornados and such.
    People like to believe that there is a higher power looking after them and bringing their loved ones back to them.

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    If it sounds a bit odd or far fetched then all you have to say is God works in mysterious ways. It's better than the alternative...

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    Had this exact discussion with my housemate last night. He has quite a few friends in the States and a few of them are deeply religious. One of them posted something to the effect of 'Thank God for helping the survivors of the tornado.", yet when questioned about the dead, especially the children, her response was "God needs more Angels in Heaven."

    Personally, I'm an atheist. I believe if the universe could be attributed a single human characteristic, it would simply be indifference. The universe does not care. It keeps doing what it does and if you're in the way, it keeps doing it anyway. If there were to be 'proof' there is no God, then I can't say I have it. What I do have, however, is a firmly-set opinion that if there is a God, s/he turned their back on us long ago. A God that is omnipotent could have prevented this, yet didn't. Are they, therefore, not omnipotent?

    I can't remember who said it, but something to the effect of 'If God cannot stop these events, he is not all-powerful. If he can, but chooses not to, he is apathetic to our suffering. If he causes them himself, he is malevolent. Either way, he is not worthy of worship.'
    Last edited by Garacesh; 22nd May 2013 at 08:59 AM.

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    Pyroman's Avatar
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    Watch Andy Hamiltons - Search for Satan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2ws...3cuLZjggWgsAwR
    It's a great evolution of the story of god and the devil. God "allows" stuff like this to happen because he's a vengeful ba**ard, look at the Old Testament!

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    You'll find this helpful, i hope

    Professor : You are a Christian, arenít you, son ?

    Student : Yes, sir.
    Professor: So, you believe in GOD ?
    Student : Absolutely, sir.
    Professor : Is GOD good ?
    Student : Sure.
    Professor: Is GOD all powerful ?
    Student : Yes.
    Professor: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to GOD to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But GOD didnít. How is this GOD good then? Hmm?
    (Student was silent.)
    Professor: You canít answer, can you ? Letís start again, young fella. Is GOD good?
    Student : Yes.
    Professor: Is satan good ?
    Student : No.
    Professor: Where does satan come from ?
    Student : From Ö GOD Ö
    Professor: Thatís right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?
    Student : Yes.
    Professor: Evil is everywhere, isnít it ? And GOD did make everything. Correct?
    Student : Yes.
    Professor: So who created evil ?
    (Student did not answer.)
    Professor: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, donít they?
    Student : Yes, sir.
    Professor: So, who created them ?
    (Student had no answer.)
    Professor: Science says you have 5 Senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son, have you ever seen GOD?
    Student : No, sir.
    Professor: Tell us if you have ever heard your GOD?
    Student : No , sir.
    Professor: Have you ever felt your GOD, tasted your GOD, smelt your GOD? Have you ever had any sensory perception of GOD for that matter?
    Student : No, sir. Iím afraid I havenít.
    Professor: Yet you still believe in Him?
    Student : Yes.
    Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesnít exist. What do you say to that, son?
    Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.
    Professor: Yes, faith. And that is the problem Science has.
    Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?
    Professor: Yes.
    Student : And is there such a thing as cold?
    Professor: Yes.
    Student : No, sir. There isnít.
    (The lecture theater became very quiet with this turn of events.)
    Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we donít have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we canít go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.
    (There was pin-drop silence in the lecture theater.)
    Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?
    Professor: Yes. What is night if there isnít darkness?
    Student : Youíre wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isnít it? In reality, darkness isnít. If it is, well you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldnít you?
    Professor: So what is the point you are making, young man ?
    Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.
    Professor: Flawed ? Can you explain how?
    Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good GOD and a bad GOD. You are viewing the concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science canít even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.
    Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?
    Professor: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.
    Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?
    (The Professor shook his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument was going.)
    Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor. Are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?
    (The class was in uproar.)
    Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professorís brain?
    (The class broke out into laughter. )
    Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professorís brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?
    (The room was silent. The Professor stared at the student, his face unfathomable.)
    Professor: I guess youíll have to take them on faith, son.
    Student : That is it sir Ö Exactly ! The link between man & GOD is FAITH. That is all that keeps things alive and moving.

  9. 3 Thanks to Sunnyknight:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnyknight View Post
    Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don’t have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.
    (There was pin-drop silence in the lecture theater.)
    Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?
    Professor: Yes. What is night if there isn’t darkness?
    Student : You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn’t it? In reality, darkness isn’t. If it is, well you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?
    Admittedly an argument I have no response to, although I'm sure that many scientists would agree. 'Darkness' doesn't exist. It simply reaches a point where your eyes cannot interpret the light hitting it because there is too little of it. I'm not sure they'd say they darkness existed as a physical thing. This argument seems to imply that they would. Huh, I guess I have a response after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnyknight View Post
    Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?
    Professor: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.
    Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?
    (The Professor shook his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument was going.)
    Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor. Are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?
    Not opinion. Evolution: The reason you need a new Flu shot every year. Also, not monkey. Common ancestor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnyknight View Post
    Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor’s brain?
    (The class broke out into laughter. )
    Everything onwards from this is just silly. If we so desired, the Professor's brain can be empirically and repeatedly proven to exist through various methods of scanning and - if push came to shove - cutting open his head and poking it. We can realistically assume the Professor has a brain without doing this due to observable patters in similar circumstances (i.e. other humans). There is no 'similar circumstance' for us to reasonably assume God (or any deity for that matter) exists.
    Last edited by Garacesh; 22nd May 2013 at 09:43 AM.

  11. 4 Thanks to Garacesh:

    adam_green (22nd May 2013), Greenbeast (22nd May 2013), pauljonze (22nd May 2013), Rawns (22nd May 2013)

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    Sunnyknight's Avatar
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    Faith.

    That's all there is to it.

    Nothing more, nothing less.

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    sdc
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    Quote Originally Posted by E_G_R2 View Post
    Original Sin
    Which was forgiven by the death of Jesus.

    Also, how is a God fair and just when they punish people for things they didn't do.

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    I believe in God as a belief system, a concept, a set of codes. My God is not your God.

    No wonder I'm not very popular at my local synagogue....

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    E_G_R2's Avatar
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    But only if you accept that as the case and take Jesus into your heart

    "Also, how is a God fair and just when they punish people for things they didn't do." see SDC post

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