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General Chat Thread, Lengthen school day says Gove! in General; Originally Posted by AMLightfoot That's exactly my point - don't hammer the kids over the head with more maths and ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMLightfoot View Post
    That's exactly my point - don't hammer the kids over the head with more maths and curriculum subjects, offer them choice - languages, practical IT, additional sports or vocational interests - we'd be more likely to see those less academically inclined actually get something out of being at school rather than ending up as a disillusioned troublemaker. I think vocational pathways are so often underestimated but if our cars break down who fixes them? If our boilers blow up or our pipes explode who do we turn to? Technicans and plumbers. These are important, valuable roles and when the zombie apocalypse comes, the practical roles will be the ones people need! The earlier we can get young people engaged in these subjects the earlier we can intervene to stop a young person who is less academically inclined from becoming disruptive and unproductive. Given how expensive continuing education is now becoming, many young people are 'priced out' of university and to offer the beginnings of vocational pathways at school would provide a real, valid alternative. I would certainly support my children in pursuing a practical course in IT (for example) as personally I feel hands-on experience is worth more than any amount of theoretical knowledge.
    exactly ive never got the everyone needs a degree mentality surely a degree is only worth having if not many other people do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sted View Post
    exactly ive never got the everyone needs a degree mentality surely a degree is only worth having if not many other people do?
    I find that view a little depressing. Is education meant to be simply a factory churning out workplace robots? Sure we need vocational skills for people to do jobs but is that what schools or universities should be doing? I like to think that a degree is worth having because it stimulated the student and they gained both knowledge and the discipline necessary to acquire and assimilate new knowledge. I'd like to think primary and secondary education had more to offer other than giving the country a bunch of plumbers, electricians or other robots that can be assimilated by employers. It's not that we should be turning out people who are incapable of work or who do not have skills essential to the workplace, just that the focus should not be on that as an end goal. Perhaps it's best summed up as the difference between teaching people *how* to think, not *what* to think.

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    [QUOTE=pcstru;957969]plumbers, electricians or other robots [\QUOTE]

    I assume that's not meant to mean "all plumbers and electricians are 'robots'"?
    Last edited by witch; 22nd April 2013 at 12:33 PM.

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    [QUOTE=Ephelyon;957974]
    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    plumbers, electricians or other robotsQUOTE]

    I assume that's not meant to mean "all plumbers and electricians are 'robots'"?
    It is poorly phrased :-(. My recent experience of both suggests robots generally have better timekeeping!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    I find that view a little depressing. Is education meant to be simply a factory churning out workplace robots?
    Welcome to Britain under the Tories.

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    I am in two minds about this. I agree it has benefits if implemented properly but I very much doubt it would be. We simply can't afford the huge costings it would require for extra staff hours and all that would go into keeping the school running longer. From the standpoint of schools like mine, if we had such a budget I think it would be much better spent on more staff to allow more time for each child. We have a high percentage of children with home difficulties and while I wish I could keep them at school safe and well all the time many of them simply wouldn't cope with days that long and it would most likely affect their attitude towards school, having big implications. I am in a primary school so it would be quite different from a high school. Children should be allowed to be children. They should go climb trees and eat worms. It really varies depending on the type of school, area and lots of other factors but I imagine they have done little to consider more than a blanket approach. What works for some schools in some countries will in turn only work for some in this country.

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    Do you think longer days and less hols would be good for primary schools?

    My 5 year old is more than ready for a break by the time they come round.

    One thing and one thing only would get better results, Pay the teachers a decent wage, that way you would get intelligent people teaching our children and not have them going off to some bank in the city. The amount of people I know that opted not to do teaching at university because of the pay and went in to law or similar is a real shame as they would have made fantastic teachers.
    Last edited by edutech4schools; 22nd April 2013 at 12:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edutech4schools View Post
    One thing and one thing only would get better results, Pay the teachers a decent wage, that way you would get intelligent people teaching our children and not have them going off to some bank in the city. The amount of people I know that opted not to do teaching at university because of the pay and went in to law or similar is a real shame as they would have made fantastic teachers.
    I don't think teachers are badly paid, and would suggest that if money is the prime motivator for encouraging people to teach then we will further skew children's values.

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    I don't think teachers are badly paid, and would suggest that if money is the prime motivator for encouraging people to teach then we will further skew children's values.
    My wife took a massive pay cut to work as a teacher, She could only do this as I work also otherwise should would not have an option. As for skew children's values, what on Earth do you think schools are for if not preparing children to work and to provide for their families?

    I don't think teachers are badly paid
    , said by someone that probably does not have many friends that work in the city. Most of the people I know laugh at the wages our teachers get, these are the people that actually got the highest marks while in education and actually understand maths or computer coding etc all of which is needed in schools is it not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkeh View Post
    Wow, do you even know anyone working in the public sector, I doubt it as if you did you wouldn't be resorting to these kind of Daily Mail generalisations about lazy Public Sector workers.
    Having teachers, doctors and nurses in the family, I know the pressures that are placed on these people and it certainly doesn't fit in with your view.
    Plenty. And I also work in a primary school.

    Feel free to generalise about my generalisations, and keep reading that Guardian and Independent, I know they're the Fountain Of Truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edutech4schools View Post
    My wife took a massive pay cut to work as a teacher, She could only do this as I work also otherwise should would not have an option. As for skew children's values, what on Earth do you think schools are for if not preparing children to work and to provide for their families?
    To provide a wide ranging education so as to produce well rounded and intelligent children. Schools are not job training factories.

    , said by someone that probably does not have many friends that work in the city. Most of the people I know laugh at the wages our teachers get, these are the people that actually got the highest marks while in education and actually understand maths or computer coding etc all of which is needed in schools is it not.
    Don't be obtuse. Teaching, as a profession, is not badly paid. Sure, if you compare it to investment banking, or software engineering it isn't the best, but it isn't badly paid. A teacher can hit >£40k income - that's not bad pay in any possible way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeMarchand View Post
    Welcome to Britain under the Tories.
    And yet SATs and the continual testing regime came in under the Labour government...

    Those crafty Tories, secretly exercising power while in opposition. Damn them. It's an OMGWTFLOLCABAL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatpackhamster View Post
    And yet SATs and the continual testing regime came in under the Labour government...

    Those crafty Tories, secretly exercising power while in opposition. Damn them. It's an OMGWTFLOLCABAL.

    But to quote many a post from apologists for both sides of the political divide...
    "They didn't change it when they got into power, did they?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    But to quote many a post from apologists for both sides of the political divide...
    "They didn't change it when they got into power, did they?"
    Give Gove a chance, he's only got one pair of hands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Don't be obtuse. Teaching, as a profession, is not badly paid. Sure, if you compare it to investment banking, or software engineering it isn't the best, but it isn't badly paid. A teacher can hit >£40k income - that's not bad pay in any possible way.

    A £40,000 a year salary puts you in the top 20% of earnings by income in the UK.

    Of course that doesn't take in to account the final salary pension, which if it were in the private sector would put teachers well in to the top 10%.



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