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General Chat Thread, Multiple ePetitions: Ian Duncan Smith To Live On £53 A Week in General; ...
  1. #31


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    Quote Originally Posted by tech_guy View Post
    Vouchers
    Perhaps MPs should have them too?

    MPs to be paid in food stamps « The Daily Mash

    MEMBERS of Parliament will receive their salaries in food vouchers to prevent them wasting money on alcohol and duck houses.

    The radical reform of political benefits is designed to stop vulnerable MPs putting vintage port and quasi-medieval home adornments before everyday family needs.

    Tory backbencher Denys Finch Hatton reacted angrily: “When you're struggling to get by on £66,000, several company directorships and a column in The Spectator, you deserve daily lunchtime grog sessions.

    “And if I want to build an ornate Gothic folly in my back garden, that’s my business. Personally I see it as a priority.

    “I shall be taking my case to the European Court of Human Rights, which I have suddenly decided is not a load of raving pinko toss.”

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpuffMonkey View Post
    If you believe that - you really don't understand how life is lived!
    Patronising much... benefits are there to survive on until you find work, not to live on.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpuffMonkey View Post
    If you believe that - you really don't understand how life is lived!
    You perhaps don't work in a town like the one I work in? An entrenched benefit culture - three generations in some cases. On benefit payday it's straight in to Iceland to stock up on pizza, a visit to the newsagent who sells knocked off baccy from under the counter and then in to Bargain Booze for the more important alcohol.

    And we have some of the worse social deprivation in Europe here, not just in the UK. People don't even try to climb out of it because the benefit system takes care of everything for them.

    And I'm not generalising. I'm a drug counsellor (voluntary) and a staff school governor so I see it first hand.
    Last edited by tech_guy; 4th April 2013 at 08:39 AM.

  4. #34


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    Quote Originally Posted by tech_guy View Post
    And we have some of the worse social deprivation in Europe here, not just in the UK. People don't even try to climb out of it because the benefit system takes care of everything for them.
    So living on benefits is "deprivation", yet people choose "deprivation" because benefits are so enticing? Seems a little contradictory.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    So living on benefits is "deprivation", yet people choose "deprivation" because benefits are so enticing? Seems a little contradictory.
    Isn't life?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    So living on benefits is "deprivation", yet people choose "deprivation" because benefits are so enticing? Seems a little contradictory.
    people chose all sorts of things that arnt good for them or drugs/cigs/alcohol would be long gone

    long term unemployment is an issue but to a degree it makes itself worse the longer you are unemployed the harder it is to get employed and the less motivation I felt when I was unemployed I found it draining to the point getting up was about all I could manage I just couldn't get motivated to do anything

  7. #37


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    Quote Originally Posted by sted View Post
    long term unemployment is an issue but to a degree it makes itself worse the longer you are unemployed the harder it is to get employed and the less motivation I felt when I was unemployed I found it draining to the point getting up was about all I could manage I just couldn't get motivated to do anything
    So the solution is to cut benefits, give them even more deprivation? And with unemployment rising (2.5 million now), where are the jobs? 1700 apply for 8 jobs in a coffee shop. That doesn't speak of huge numbers of jobs out there.

  8. #38


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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    So the solution is to cut benefits, give them even more deprivation? And with unemployment rising (2.5 million now), where are the jobs? 1700 apply for 8 jobs in a coffee shop. That doesn't speak of huge numbers of jobs out there.
    I don't pretend to know any solution but the current system is not fit for purpose. As with a lot of things it the debate needs to be had as to what benefits are there for then when that's decided you can work out how to achieve it but that's never going to happen as politicians cant have debates they just act like 8 year olds.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simcfc73 View Post
    Patronising much... benefits are there to survive on until you find work, not to live on.
    If you look at the bit I quoted - I was implying that if you give people cards or tokens that are restricted - they will barter them for what they really want (usually at a substantial loss - see modern pawn shops, payday loan companies etc) - be it fags, booze or whatever - they certainly won't just meekly buy what some authority decides is "good" for them - and frankly - who really knows that?

    However you want to dress it up - there are less jobs than there are people who want them at the moment - so whacking those without a job doesn't make a lot of sense, as however unpleasant you make their lives - there still aren't enough jobs. While this process might have some merit in the middle of a boom cycle where there are many jobs and not enough workers - its just fatuous to employ it in the middle of a recession. Personally - I think that they are performing a useful role - as everyone who accepts a life on benefits is one less chasing a job that somebody else really wants.

  10. #40


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    Quote Originally Posted by sted View Post
    I don't pretend to know any solution but the current system is not fit for purpose. As with a lot of things it the debate needs to be had as to what benefits are there for then when that's decided you can work out how to achieve it but that's never going to happen as politicians cant have debates they just act like 8 year olds.
    The vast majority of the benefits bill is paid to people who are IN work but don't earn enough to keep their head above water. The real culprits are companies that don't pay enough to live on. So we, the taxpayer, are subsidising their profits by allowing them to pay less than a living wage. Some of those same companies then pay large amounts of money to clever accountants to help them avoid paying taxes so again, they can maximise their profits. The real problem today is government which encourages putting profit before any social responsibility. Read all about the Teenage Mum on benefits who ... gasp ... revels in the luxury of a Sky subscription! Throw up your hands in horror at how she manages to buy a bottle of blue nun for a friday evening! Mr Phillip Green - oh no sir, he's a stand up member of the community - the fact that he ships money out of the country by the truckload and seems to pay no taxes - why, anyone can see he's a role model! A veritable giant, a man we should call 'Sir'! Now, turn your attention to the real problems : burn the Benefit Scroungers!!!

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simcfc73 View Post
    Patronising much... benefits are there to survive on until you find work, not to live on.
    I have to plus one this, some people blame the media hype over the abuse benefits has created but when people like me who actually see it abused what then?

    I know/have known a lot of people over the years who have used the benefit system just to avoid work, some get pregnant just to live on it. I for one cheer the government on to reform the benefit system. When working class people stop getting fiddled for every penny they earn why should we sit here and just accept it. As I have said before in other posts my younger sister now almost due with her 3rd child has never worked more then a week in her life. She had kids as soon as she left school with the first guy that came along, she then got told (yes told) by a social worker that she would get more money if she dumped her boyfriend and got custody of both kids. She then dumped him, got custody of one child, she then met another guy and after almost 3 months of being with him fell pregnant.

    She claims she has it hard in her 2 bed house (paid for by benefits) and wants a 3 bed house. She smokes, she drinks and after claiming she will love this baby more then anything she then lights up a fag (yes while pregnant).

    My mother is a bit like the government over the years, blames everyone else, ignores the wrongs done by my sister and pretends everything is fine but gives her handouts when she wants it. While my sister will complain and moan when she doesnt get what she wants.

    Now tell me the benefit system should be left alone? The benefit system is there to help the needed, not the lazy who REFUSE to work. I dont have a problem with the system helping those pay their bills while they are out of work due to being laid off. Should it help after 12 months? Should if help those who have more then 2 kids?

    My other half wants kids, as much as I want the same we simply can't afford it and we both work. Why should people get handouts because they dont bother thinking "Can I afford another baby?".

  12. #42

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    I see the system should be like it is in Egypt (yes, Egypt). If you don't or haven't paid into the system, you get nothing back, and you only get help for the amount of years you have worked. So if you worked for 10 years, you can have up to 10 years of help. If you work 10 years, have 5 years of help, then work 3 more years, you get 8 years of help. The only exemption to this is their pension system which kicks in at 62, or those with genuine disabilities as confirmed by 2 separate specialists.

    This has been since the reform, and so far, so good in Egypt. Their system is much much harsher than ours in terms of levels of help you can get, however it is much fairer as it helps those that have worked and shown ability to work, or those with the genuine need for assistance such as the disabled people.

    The employment levels in Egypt have steadily increased since this reform, and whilst there are still a lot of people doing under the table deals for work, but the system is clearly working as it is getting people back into work. They had a WORSE benefit culture than we did under Hosni Mubarak, but since the new reformed government, things have changed.

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    I think I must have missed something, my understanding is that the caps are £500 per week for couples or single parents with kids (£2k a month) or £350 for single people without kids (£1400 a month) tax free. For a single person with no kids you would have to earn £21,899 before tax to get the same. In other words why work if you will be paid less? On top of that if you work you have to pay for transport to get to work. Benefits should be below minimum wage or there is no incentive to work, if benefits are too low to live on then minimum wage should be increased so it is greater then the benefits.

    If there are not enough jobs about how come there is no shortage of jobs for immegrants, eg. car washes etc. Just because people consider some jobs beneath them and discount them doesnt mean that the jobs arnt there.

    Another thought, why do we pay housing benefits for people who have been out of work for a long time (or never in work) to live in the most expensive city in the country especially when there are people who are in work and having to commute because of lack of housing or price. I dont know the figures but maybe stopping housing benefits in the more expensive citys would bring down housing prices for the people who do rent/buy with their own money.

  14. Thanks to PyROm from:

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